Re: Issues with emacs

[rusi]

On Jun 25, 8:54 am, ken <geb...@mousecar.com> wrote:
> On 06/24/2012 02:39 AM rusi wrote:
>
> > On Jun 24, 7:39 am, ken<geb...@mousecar.com>  wrote:
>
> >> 5. Make the elisp documentation and tutorials so easy and fun to learn
> >> that tons of people actually want to write code.
>
> > When I first started reading the emacs/elisp docs around 93 I found
> > them a model of clarity.
> > Has that changed much? I dont think so
>
> > ....
>
> > tl;dr version: Saying that emacs manuals are not fun and easy to learn
> > is wrong.  Its just that reading them feels like 1980
>
> I got into computers long before 1980... and read computer manuals back
> in the '70s just for fun-- even though I didn't then have a computer or
> access to one.

I learnt lisp in 84; implemented my own lisp interpreter in 86 (that
was almost the required right-of-passage those days), teaching-
assisted scheme in 88 to a 'CS101' class, taught my own CS101 using
scheme in 91, then in order Miranda, gofer and (in this century)
python. So whether I am considered to be capable in lisp I dont know;
in any case scheme was for me one of the most happy and I can say
epiphanic experiences.

>
> That said, please note that I was referring to *elisp* and never
> mentioned *emacs*.  These are two quite different subjects and equating
> them and/or their documentation-- to borrow a phrase-- is just wrong.
>
> The topic was emacs development and how to encourage it.  This requires
> a knowledge of /elisp/.  In the confusion the point I made was lost, so
> I'll say it again: To encourage development, there could be better elisp
> documentation and tutorials.

I believe that one of the biggest obstacles to widespread emacs
adoption is (e)lisp.
Unfortunately at this point the discussion invariably degenerates into
a bad miscombination of  technical and sociological framing.

If the issue is technical, then encouraging development is out-of-
bounds
If the issue is social -- how to get today's kids interested in emacs
-- and I start with the slogan LEARN ELISP -- I need to go to
marketing kindergarten