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Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
From: |
Roberto Beltran |
Subject: |
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software |
Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2020 02:11:29 +0000 |
Thanks Roberto, you did not disappoint :)
np hahah
> Moral arguments with respect to software are vaccous.
What are your reasons for being on this list?
Free software developer for over 20 years. Occasional FSF/FSFE paying
member. FLOSS advocate since long before the term "FLOSS" (which I
don't like), circa 2005.
Why did you do all these things?
There are plenty of good reasons to develop GLP'd or <other libre lic>
software without the ethics argument, is my point.
I agree, I'm wondering what motivates you in particular.
I'm not saying I agree with the communist perspective, but I do
think there are ethical reasons for not producing and for rejecting
proprietary software.
Go ahead, explain the ethical reasons, or better, the immorality of
proprietary software and how libre software is somehow moral.
So there's three main schools of ethics, deontological,
consequensialist, and virtue ethics.
I kind of suck at building out Kant, but for deontological the argument
might be something like: the user uses his software as a tool to
further his own ends, if you remove his agency in using his tool for
your own ends you are using him as mere means breaking the categorical
imperative, therefore unethical. I don't think that's an empty
argument.
For consequential, I don't really like this perspective but it might be
true. That goes something like: free software is generally going to
create more utility than proprietary software, considering how the user
is mistreated, how vendor lock-in affects whole industries, etc. etc.
vs profits for the company and the marginal utility of the proprietary
software vs a free version of the same thing if it already exists,
therefore proprietary software is unethical. Again, not really a fan of
this one, but I don't think it's empty.
I like virtue ethics and I like rolling my own, and I came up with this
perspective: Really there is something fundamentally human about using
tools, just like speaking and walking upright. We use tools, adapt them
to our needs and disseminate them through our community. That's part of
how we've been so successful as a species, particularly over
neanderthal. Looking at how we use software as a tool, if we restrict
users as is done with proprietary software, we are attacking an
essential part of their humanity, making them pathetic, so we shouldn't
do that. Also as users, if we are really excellent, we would be able to
stop others from making us pathetic by rejecting attempts to mistreat
us in this way.
These arguments lay all the responsibility at the feet of business,
Not true, I just built it out like that for the first two. With
consequential, you could say that using proprietary software in general
creates less utility than using free software for similar reasons. With
deontological its a little harder, but it would be about contributing
to systems which treat people as mere means. That really does take you
off the deep end though.
I described the responsibility of users within the perspective I came
up with. Maybe I just neglected to say that we have an ethical
imperative to be good people that strive for excellence. There is room
within my perspective to consider circumstance though, both for the
software proprietor and the user.
No matter how you cut it though the developer of the software (doesn't
matter if it's a business or not) is the one with the agency to make
the software proprietary or free. They are ultimately the one with the
ethical decision to make.
but every android cellphone contract comes with full disclosure of the
"abuses" that the client will incur, and the client signs-away their
privacy without coersion.
People have different levels of privilege in being able to refuse such
things. Again, I agree users should take some responsibility, but
putting them in that situation is the prior injustice.
Philosophy at the level you touch on is borderline religion, and
religion is beyond-borderline polarizing. I think moral and ethical
arguments only serve to alienate, and they are not needed in order to
advocate for libre software,
If someone uses some ethical school of thought for action guidance
(even some of the time) then you'd serve them well showing them how
free software fits within what they already believe. I agree that some
kind of rhetoric is generally more effective though. For example,
having some label that people can self-identify with and feel like
their a part of a group and the social proof that goes along with that.
At the same time, people will fight you. If you know the reason you are
doing something all the way up through metaphysics like all the schools
ethical thought enable you to do it helps. Again, you still need good
rhetoric.
By the way, I've actually come up with a Christian perspective in
support of free software too.
nor do I believe btw that any moral imperitives w.r.t. software even
exist
I've shown you three ways they do and you haven't even really tried to
rebut any of them, but you can believe what you'd like of course. I'm
thinking maybe you just don't like thinking about ethics or politics in
general, or maybe just with respect to software and that's okay. My
only point is that such things exist and are worth considering. They're
not empty. You don't have to consider them if you don't want to. I want
a label that will encompass all of us, regardless of why we reject
proprietary software, what organizations or groups we affiliate
ourselves with, and what other beliefs we might have.
- Roberto Beltran
[1]https://libremiami.org/
References
1. https://libremiami.org/
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, (continued)
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Roberto Beltran, 2020/02/13
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Bob Jonkman, 2020/02/13
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Thomas Lord, 2020/02/13
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, C . Cossé, 2020/02/13
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, C . Cossé, 2020/02/13
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Jean Louis, 2020/02/14
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Roberto Beltran, 2020/02/14
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, C . Cossé, 2020/02/14
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Roberto Beltran, 2020/02/14
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, C . Cossé, 2020/02/15
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software,
Roberto Beltran <=
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, C . Cossé, 2020/02/15
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Roberto Beltran, 2020/02/15
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, C . Cossé, 2020/02/16
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Roberto Beltran, 2020/02/16
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, C . Cossé, 2020/02/16
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Roberto Beltran, 2020/02/16
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, C . Cossé, 2020/02/16
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Andrea Trentini, 2020/02/14
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Robbt E, 2020/02/14
- Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software, Roberto Beltran, 2020/02/14