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Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement


From: Miles Fidelman
Subject: Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 12:56:13 -0400
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0

Well... I mean that coddling folks who loudly, and authoritatively pronounce bullshit - particularly when stated as fact - I say shoot it down, loudly, and often.  (As opposed to canceling people, "moderating" or otherwise censoring, or expelling people from groups.  I'm sorry, but I've come to favor bluntness over kindness, when dealing with healthy adults.)

Miles Fidelman

On 7/24/20 12:38 PM, Ali Reza Hayati wrote:
Well, Miles, as I'm not a native English speaker I'm not sure I understood what 
you said correctly but I agree somehow.

The goal of FSF is not to commercialize the software libre concept but it's to 
spread knowledge about it and make people know their digital rights and care 
for it.

However, if by strong defense you mean trolling people and calling them idiots, 
I don't agree with you. I believe we should educate people. Trolling, I 
believe, is somehow forcing people.

On July 24, 2020 4:30:00 PM UTC, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> 
wrote:
Not for nothing, but...

"The Free Software Foundation (FSF) is a nonprofit with a worldwide
mission to promote computer user freedom. We defend the rights of all
software users."  (from the FSF home page)

To me, the key word is "defend" - and, frankly, when know-nothings
pontificate about why free software is doomed to failure - a strong
defense is called for.  Not a kind defense. Not a polite defense.  A
strong defense.  (IMO)

Miles Fidelman

On 7/24/20 11:02 AM, Ali Reza Hayati wrote:
I actually don't agree to this. The goal of FSF is to make software libre 
knowledge and use worldwide.

Such analogy you mentioned is not for all people.

On July 24, 2020 8:40:29 AM UTC, Msavoritias <marinus.savoritias@disroot.org> 
wrote:
I agree completely. We could attract people with an enjoyable experiece
and the community feeling.
We should investigate how FSF and GNU can improve these areas.

Regards,
MSavoritias

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 07:29, Yasuaki Kudo <yasu@yasuaki.com> wrote:
In a way, I think money is not even a big issue.

I recently came across this article:

<https://newrepublic.com/article/121832/pleasure-do-it-yourself-slow-computing>

Applying the "Slow Food" analogy, our point would not be pouring
money so that it becomes "Less Slow" 😄

I would say, we need to have more people enjoy it.  So in practical
terms, we need to develop a huge communal kitchen, instead of an
industrial food factory.

The workers at food factory, or paid computer programmers at
Microsoft, for example, would not go there were it not for the money.

However, the people at communal kitchens at camping sites go there
for the enjoyment of it!

Free Software development should a very enjoyable activity and we
should aim to develop a practical regime of constantly welcoming new
participants, educating them and empowering them to enjoy and
contribute meaningfully to the Fee Software ecosystem 😄

-Yasu



On Jul 24, 2020, at 06:36, Msavoritias
<marinus.savoritias@disroot.org> wrote:

  Mr Fidelman,
    Whether this person is or isn't correct doesn't matter. We should
treat
    everybody respectfully otherwise we are alienating potential Free
    Software users from joining our community. Please try to be more
polite
    in the future.
    MSavoritias

    On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 15:22, Miles Fidelman
    <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> wrote:

    On 7/23/20 12:48 PM, Sagar Acharya via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

      I read "Free as in Freedom" by Richard Stallman and am a strong
      supporter of GNU project. I strongly want it to succeed. However,
      when you keep money away from the free software movement, such a
      movement cannot survive against people who actively charge money
for
      binaries without source code. All power arises from concealment.
      When you understand a system very well, the power goes away and
it
      looks ordinary. When GNU or libre movement asks contributors or
      volunteers (both fancy words for "work for me for free"), you
      present making libre software as a secondary thing rather than a
      central thing. When projects licensed GPLv3 rely almost
completely
      on "donations" from other, you rely on the donor's generosity for
      getting food at your table. I really want people to remove
reliance
      on external things and make GNU central and very active.

    So what's your point? FOSS is doing quite well.  Apache powers the
    web.  Postfix powers email.  Linux, Python, ...  And plenty of the
bug
    guys pay good money to folks who crank out FOSS software. What's
the
    point of pontificating & spouting counter-factual bullshit?  Do you
    just like making a fool of yourself?  Or am I missing something?
Miles
    Fidelman
    --
    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
    practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra Theory is when you know
everything
    but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one
knows
    why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works
and no
    one knows why. ... unknown
    _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss
    mailing list [1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
[2]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

References

    1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
    2.
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
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--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown


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--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown




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