Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement

[Yuchen Pei]

TIL FSF's mission is to defend user freedom from supporters who show 
concerns about the cause /s

On 2020-07-24 18:30, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Not for nothing, but...
>
> "The Free Software Foundation (FSF) is a nonprofit with a worldwide 
> mission to promote computer user freedom. We defend the rights of all 
> software users."  (from the FSF home page)
>
> To me, the key word is "defend" - and, frankly, when know-nothings 
> pontificate about why free software is doomed to failure - a strong 
> defense is called for.  Not a kind defense. Not a polite defense.  A 
> strong defense.  (IMO)
>
> Miles Fidelman
>
> On 7/24/20 11:02 AM, Ali Reza Hayati wrote:
> > I actually don't agree to this. The goal of FSF is to make software 
> > libre knowledge and use worldwide.
> >
> > Such analogy you mentioned is not for all people.
> >
> > On July 24, 2020 8:40:29 AM UTC, Msavoritias 
> > <marinus.savoritias@disroot.org> wrote:
> > > I agree completely. We could attract people with an enjoyable experiece
> > > and the community feeling.
> > > We should investigate how FSF and GNU can improve these areas.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > MSavoritias
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 07:29, Yasuaki Kudo <yasu@yasuaki.com> wrote:
> > > > In a way, I think money is not even a big issue.
> > > >
> > > > I recently came across this article:
> > > >
> > > > <https://newrepublic.com/article/121832/pleasure-do-it-yourself-slow-computing> 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Applying the "Slow Food" analogy, our point would not be pouring
> > > > money so that it becomes "Less Slow" 😄
> > > >
> > > > I would say, we need to have more people enjoy it.  So in practical
> > > > terms, we need to develop a huge communal kitchen, instead of an
> > > > industrial food factory.
> > > >
> > > > The workers at food factory, or paid computer programmers at
> > > > Microsoft, for example, would not go there were it not for the money.
> > > >
> > > > However, the people at communal kitchens at camping sites go there
> > > > for the enjoyment of it!
> > > >
> > > > Free Software development should a very enjoyable activity and we
> > > > should aim to develop a practical regime of constantly welcoming new
> > > > participants, educating them and empowering them to enjoy and
> > > > contribute meaningfully to the Fee Software ecosystem 😄
> > > >
> > > > -Yasu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Jul 24, 2020, at 06:36, Msavoritias
> > > > > <marinus.savoritias@disroot.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >   Mr Fidelman,
> > > > >    Whether this person is or isn't correct doesn't matter. We should
> > > > > treat
> > > > >    everybody respectfully otherwise we are alienating potential Free
> > > > >    Software users from joining our community. Please try to be more
> > > > > polite
> > > > >    in the future.
> > > > >    MSavoritias
> > > > >
> > > > >    On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 15:22, Miles Fidelman
> > > > >    <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >    On 7/23/20 12:48 PM, Sagar Acharya via libreplanet-discuss wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >      I read "Free as in Freedom" by Richard Stallman and am a strong
> > > > >      supporter of GNU project. I strongly want it to succeed. 
> > > > > However,
> > > > >      when you keep money away from the free software movement, such a
> > > > >      movement cannot survive against people who actively charge money
> > > > > for
> > > > >      binaries without source code. All power arises from concealment.
> > > > >      When you understand a system very well, the power goes away and
> > > > > it
> > > > >      looks ordinary. When GNU or libre movement asks contributors or
> > > > >      volunteers (both fancy words for "work for me for free"), you
> > > > >      present making libre software as a secondary thing rather than a
> > > > >      central thing. When projects licensed GPLv3 rely almost
> > > > > completely
> > > > >      on "donations" from other, you rely on the donor's generosity 
> > > > > for
> > > > >      getting food at your table. I really want people to remove
> > > > > reliance
> > > > >      on external things and make GNU central and very active.
> > > > >
> > > > >    So what's your point? FOSS is doing quite well.  Apache powers the
> > > > >    web.  Postfix powers email.  Linux, Python, ...  And plenty of the
> > > > > bug
> > > > >    guys pay good money to folks who crank out FOSS software. What's
> > > > > the
> > > > >    point of pontificating & spouting counter-factual bullshit?  Do 
> > > > > you
> > > > >    just like making a fool of yourself?  Or am I missing something?
> > > > > Miles
> > > > >    Fidelman
> > > > >    --
> > > > >    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
> > > > >    practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra Theory is when you know
> > > > > everything
> > > > >    but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one
> > > > > knows
> > > > >    why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works
> > > > > and no
> > > > >    one knows why. ... unknown
> > > > >    _______________________________________________ 
> > > > > libreplanet-discuss
> > > > >    mailing list [1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > > > > [2]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> > > > >
> > > > > References
> > > > >
> > > > >    1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > > > >    2.
> > > > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
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