Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things...

[Ivan Vučica]

On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Doc O'Leary <droleary@7usenet2013.subsume.com> wrote:

> You do nothing
> but criticize.

Because those in charge, time and time again, refuse to *act* on the
criticism.  Instead of admitting the problems and discussing changes
rationally, you get all snippy.  Too many people here act as though
problems don't exist so long as you don't talk about them ("be
positive!").

This isn't criticism, this is demands.

This will be my final response to you in context of this discussion. I would invite others to cease responding as well, as your criticism is not of the constructive kind.

Your criticism serves itself, as you refuse to believe that a direction for GNUstep cannot be set, that everyone has their own goals, and that people will not submit to a central will. I won't suddenly work on themes just because the project direction is "we need better themes" (which we are luckily getting).

I'd say "think about it for a while", but you will claim that you have, and that the entire development team is unreasonable for not bowing and submitting to a central development plan, to a central authority, to a single Great Leader(tm) who shall show us the path to glory.

 

> You asked for reasons why Apple did what they did. I gave you the reasons
> that I'm aware of. Do you want citations or something?  This is not a
> science journal.

I wanted *good* reasons.  It's not your fault if Apple doesn't have
them.  It is your fault, though, if you don't have good reasons of your
own for copying them.  I call out Apple when they do something
questionable just as I call you out.  Maybe I'm wrong and maybe they do
have a good reason, but nobody has shown me anything convincing.

Apple's reasons includes improving consistency of the APIs and reorganization in the world of constrained devices that nonetheless run hardware-accelerated graphics. If you use UIView the same way you use NSView, as you claim, you might be doing it wrong; but if you plan to use UITableView the same way you use NSTableView, you're certainly doing it wrong. With UIView, you should plan for it being backed by CALayer and hence a texture that is expensive to upload, but cheap to paint over and over again. With modern NSView, you should do the same, but the API itself does not fully count on that (especially back in 2007). UIView does.

Apple's reasons include forcing developers to think in a different way. They did not want people to recompile TextEdit and try to run it on iPhoneOS; although they could have perhaps added AppKit in time for the release of App Store, the easiest way to prevent people from downscaling their apps back in 2008 was to give them an incompatible API. Just look at what "benefits" did Windows Mobile/Windows CE have from having a nearly-the-same API as desktop Windows: they had such marvelous devices, but they insisted on having a start menu. (Compare with PalmOS.)

Apple has a history of manipulating developer behavior by deprecating older APIs, introducing new ones, and using architecture switch to completely remove the old behavior and simplify their own codebase. See: the removal of BlueBox upon switch to Intel, removal of PowerPC emulation support in 10.7. UIKit is just another way to manipulate developers' behavior while simultaneously getting rid of cruft.

Do you need more reasons for why Apple took the UIKit route? I can come up with more, but it has nothing to do with your demands to understand a direction GNUstep should be taking, and most certainly won't prove anything to you.

For me, a simple reason for going the UIKit direction is that today there is a way to run (some) OS X applications on free systems, but there is no way for way more numerous iOS apps to be ported to free systems (and beyond). Commercial offerings exist, and they will always have a reason to exist and provide added value. But let's have a free one as well, to help students, to help free software users, et cetera.

> As David so aptly put it. Talk is cheap. Walk the walk. Prove youself. This

> is a meritocracy and so far you have none.

And I will happily *continue* to have none so long as your only measure
of worth is the addition of code to an incoherent project.  By refusing
to walk in a random direction, I show more merit than you can apparently
allow yourself to admit.

Pick a direction for yourself and walk in that direction. Don't expect us to tell you where to go. This is not a commercial effort. If you prefer to have a team that will work on GNUstep as you see it fit, hire a team and let us watch in awe as you take all GNUstep's users. Please, do release a good and free implementation of Core Animation. Please, do improve AppKit to run well on touch devices. Please, do invent a new paradigm if you see it fit.

Taking no action is not an action.

-- 

Ivan Vučica

ivan@vucica.net