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Re: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input
From: |
carlmarcos |
Subject: |
Re: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input |
Date: |
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 13:23:57 +0200 (CEST) |
Jun 23, 2022, 19:56 by tsdh@gnu.org:
> Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>
>>> You have to delete the initial input if it's not what
>>> you want or if you want to see the other possibilities.
>>>
>>
>> That's akin to the arguments pro/con `delete-selection-mode'.
>>
>
> No, not really. It is easy for every user to enable or disable
> delete-selection-mode. That's not true for initial-input. If the
> programmer used it, you get it, and there's no easy way to disable it.
>
>>> So basically all occurrences
>>>
>>
>> "Basically"? or "all"? Do you mean not all
>> but most/generally? Or do you mean all, so
>> not just basically?
>>
>> I guess you mean almost all, aka _not_ all.
>>
>
> Yes, I've meant that I cannot think of a situation where initial-input
> used as a default value is suitable and even in non-default-value
> scenarios I was able to come up with only two sensible use-cases. And
> honestly, only the completing-read-multiple case is really convincing to
> me.
>
>>> where INITIAL-INPUT is used as a kind of default
>>> value are better handled with the DEF argument.
>>>
>>
>> Sounds a bit circular. That just says that DEF
>> is a better default-value behavior. Initial
>> input isn't the same as a default value. The
>> behavior/effect is different.
>>
>
> Yes. What I've meant to say is that in the past, initial-input was
> frequently used as a means to insert a default value, maybe because it
> was available earlier. I don't know exactly, I'm an emacs newby using
> it only since 2001.
>
That would be a mistake on their part. Please refrain using the 20 year
card to thumb down others simply to push towards some direction.
> And since it comes first in the completing-read argument list and
> INITIAL-INPUT is more in the face than DEF, chances are that people read
> it first, it looks suitable, and so it is used for the default value
> case.
>
>>> The only places where I can see it's useful is when all possible
>>> completions have a common prefix and that is given as initial-input
>>> (but then you only save one TAB) or with completing-read-multiple
>>> when it's highly likely that the user wants to use the defaults given
>>> as initial-input and just insert some more.
>>> (completing-read-multiple doesn't explicitly state that INITIAL-INPUT
>>> is deprecated.)
>>>
>>
>> The behavior of INITIAL-INPUT differs from that
>> of DEF. That's enough to point to different uses.
>>
>> Unless, that is, you can convince all that the
>> DEF behavior is always preferable - for all users,
>> all calls to `completing-read', and all contexts.
>>
>
> I can only say that except for the crm case I cannot come up with a good
> example where it's useful. But if you know some, I'm eager to read
> them.
>
> And in any case: there's no need to have flamewars about some argument
> being called deprecated. It's one of the central functions in emacs,
> the argument is in the middle of the argument list. There's no doubt it
> will still be there in 20 years. ;-)
>
If emacs discourages things, people will take it seriously. A deprecated
statement has consequences to many people in the way they code. It is assumed
that the functionality is not to be relied upon too much.
It becomes a flame war when people start insisting on discouraging things that
do not constitute a problem. There is nothing inherently wrong with it.
- Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, (continued)
- Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Emanuel Berg, 2022/06/23
- Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Emanuel Berg, 2022/06/23
- Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Emanuel Berg, 2022/06/23
- Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Emanuel Berg, 2022/06/23
- RE: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Drew Adams, 2022/06/23
- Re: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Tassilo Horn, 2022/06/23
- Re: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input,
carlmarcos <=
- Re: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Jean Louis, 2022/06/24
- Re: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Emanuel Berg, 2022/06/25
- RE: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Drew Adams, 2022/06/25
- Re: RE: [External] : completing-read depricated initial-input, Christopher Dimech, 2022/06/21
Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Anders Munch, 2022/06/21
Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Anders Munch, 2022/06/22
Re: completing-read depricated initial-input, Anders Munch, 2022/06/22