Re: [lp-ca-on] Microblogs for Software Freedom Day

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

Oh, man!  There was a time when I wrote large e-mails about anything as
well.  I should resurrect this habit if I want to argue with you,
otherwise it will look like I am not replying properly to your
arguments!  Please, don't take me wrong :-).

On Monday, August 03 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:

> On 03/08/15 02:17 PM, Sergio Durigan Junior wrote:
>> On Monday, August 03 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>>>
>>> I think there are so many differences though [...]
>>>
>>> - there isn't a large open source / free software community on Facebook 
>>> [...]
>> 
>> But "reaching a target argument" means, in many cases, reaching people
>> who never heard about Free Software.  In this case, not having a large
>> Free Software community on Facebook doesn't really impose a problem.
>> 
>
> Sorry, should have been more specific.
>
> Facebook is your everyman's social networking platform, whereas on Twitter 
> there
> is a larger public presence and active community of tech, open source, or even
> free software folks. Along this spectrum are people who might have *some*
> awareness of free software, and therefore some openness to it (ranging from
> "open source" is cool, or open source activists, or even some people who are
> conscious and interest in software freedom).
>
> That's ripe "mission" territory -- people who are already open to the message,
> or have varying levels of familiarity with it, but they aren't yet committed
> software freedom advocates with GNU Social or Pump.io accounts or whatever. So
> it's not preaching to the choir, but it's not starting from scratch.
>
> On Facebook, not only would there be far fewer active communities of allies or
> people who are "ripe for evangelization" or open to the message like that, but
> it's a lot harder to have those public conversations... because Facebook's
> system and culture is so much about connecting with people you know, with
> friends and family, in a more private way.
>
> So Twitter is a real natural candidate for spreading the message of software
> freedom, whereas Facebook seems like it would take so much work for very 
> little
> ROI because of the culture and community.

Alright.  I have absolutely no idea about the type of people that use
Facebook vs. the type of people that use Twitter, so I cannot really
argue anymore in this front.  While I do believe it would be awesome to
promote Free Software to anyone (no matter if this person knows what is
a computer is), you also have a valid point of dealing with a community
that would be more open to the concept, at least initially.

Just as a curious fact: in Brazil, back in 2013, I organized a Software
Freedom Day in the city I lived without using Facebook, Twitter, or even
GNU Social.  I just spammed some local universities, open source groups,
and websites.  IIRC, 75 people subscribed to the event; unfortunately
only 25 showed up (as it always happens with gratis events, I'm afraid).

>>> - Facebook is asking for way more data and setting up private walled garden
>>> spaces, whereas Twitter's public by default is a lot closer to posting to a
>>> forum on a website (in terms of access at least, not in terms of network 
>>> effects)
>> 
>> The amount of data Twitter asks may be considerably less, but it is
>> data, and it is a proprietary software running on the background, and it
>> is personal stuff being posted there (through Direct Messages), so for
>> me there is no "lesser evil", although I agree Facebook excels in this
>> aspect.
>> 
>
> Yes and no. You can use Twitter while giving it not much more information that
> any online forum that requires registration -- username, password, email, and
> any information that's being picked up from requests to the server (like your 
> IP
> address or browser/client or whatever).
>
> Facebook, with that level of engagement, the account would look fake and 
> nobody
> would see posts.

I understand your point.  It may seem like I'm playing devil's advocate
for Facebook (which I am, kind of, but in a lame way), but I completely
understand and agree that Twitter, in terms of respecting (or not
abusing) privacy, is *way* better than Facebook.  I think in the end my
main concern is the proprietary software running there, and the fact
that we *know* there is proprietary software running there.

>>> [...] We avoid engaging in the Twitter account directly, e.g. by following 
>>> any other
>>> accounts, retweeting, uploading photos, etc., so it's mostly if not entirely
>>> read only.
>> 
>> I have used Twitter before, but I confess I have no idea how social
>> networks work.  For example, I had the impression that in order to gain
>> more follower one needed to also follow people (a la "network effect").
>> If we have an account there but don't follow anyone, how is it going to
>> effectively help us?  This is not an ironic question: I really don't
>> know.
>> 
>
> Ah. So, on Facebook that would be true, but not on Twitter.
>
> Facebook "friend requests" are reciprocal -- user A sends a request to user B,
> and user B has to accept that request for the connection to be established.
>
> Twitter "follows" are, like GNU Social, one-way. You can follow someone and 
> they
> don't have to follow you back. (Facebook has an infrequently used Subscribe
> feature like this... but I think most users aren't even aware of it.)
>
> So Twitter follows work just like GNU Social. We don't have to follow anyone 
> for
> people to be able to follow us.
>
> A good example of this kind of announce-only account ("read-only" was probably
> the wrong term) is Techdirt's Twitter account:
> https://twitter.com/techdirt
>
> It's really just an alternative to their RSS feed, just gets no articles 
> posted.
> 40k people following the account, but they're only "following" 13 people. And
> every post has a link to a Techdirt article.
>
> That's what I'd imagine... using an account like an RSS feed on Twitter for 
> the
> GNU Social account...

Cool, thanks for the explanation.  I mean, I knew how Twitter worked (I
used it for a while, as I said), but I had no idea if the fact that we
would not be following anyone could mean less "network effect" for us.
But yeah, I guess "mouth-to-mouth" (or "finger-to-finger") promotion
works OK in this case.

>> I am just honestly wondering how effective this Twitter account would be
>> with all those counter-measurements in place.
>> 
>
> That's a good question, and I was wondering that too.
>
> There are still hash tags. If we're using a hash tag on GNU Social, that'll 
> get
> used on Twitter too. I think that's probably the only way people might find 
> the
> account.
>
> Or it might be worth a few Twitter specific posts targeted at certain
> communities or hash tags... e.g. if something is trending that warrants our
> commentary, and we post to GNU Social using the same hash tag that's trending 
> on
> Twitter, then Twitter users might still be seeing that.
>
> I'm not sure how effective it'd be. It'd certainly be low effort, so it's not
> like we'd be spending a ton of time or energy for no purpose.
>
> But it'd allow us to syndicate messages to a much more populous network with
> many ally communities and people who are open to the message, while clearly 
> not
> embracing or promoting a proprietary service with all the counter-measures in
> place to avoid scandal/incoherence/compromising our message.

Right...

Well, I don't think I have my more arguments, TBH.  It was an awesome
discussion from my POV; it's always good to talk with you :-).  And, in
the end, as I said above, I guess my main (and only?) point is: Twitter
runs proprietary things, and we should make every effort to avoid
proprietary things.  Hmm no, it's not the only point, but it's the main
point indeed.  But I know life is made of compromises...

I don't agree with having a Twitter account for the group, but I accept
this decision if the group wants it (assuming all the counter-measures
will be implemented by the group, of course).  I think you and Bob are
in favor of it, so if nobody else opposes we can go ahead and
keep/create the account.

Cheers,

-- 
Sergio
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