Re: Musicology with Lilypond (and now correct attachments ;-)

[Urs Liska]

28. Oktober 2019 00:21, "Karsten Reincke" <address@hidden> schrieb:

> Dear Urs;
> 
> Many thanks for this quick and exhaustive answer! Let me briefly
> answer:
> 
> 1) As long as lilypond-book has to be called at first and replaces the
> lilypond code in the LaTeX files by a section including the
> corresponding picture, none LaTeX code can be combined with the
> Lilypond code. And hence, the LaTeX package harmony cannot be used.
> 

OK, that's true and does not change when using lyluatex (which is a superset of 
lilypond-book with the (significant) advantage that it directly compiles (and 
caches) LilyPond code along with the LaTeX run, so there's no need for the 
intermediate file). When you want to have the analysis symbol aligned to the 
score then there's a LilyPond solution needed.

> 2) But there is no need to break up this handling! I followed your
> first proposal and read the respective email thread. From the viewpoint
> of the expresivity, http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=967 (mentioned
> in the first solution) is exactly what I've looked for (and did not
> find). Unfortunately, the code is not a 'library'. S, the task seems to
> be to modify this version.

That's the general design of the LSR. Some people prefer that approach (with 
straightforward copy&paste) while others prefer a library approach. I belong to 
the latter and have for that reason invented openLilyLib as a LilyPond 
extension and package management framework.

> 
> BUT THERE IS A LICENSE QUESTION (very important in the area of free
> software!) The example shown if you click on the graphik of 
> http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=967 does not contain any license
> information. Does anyone know the author? Does any (provable) know,
> whether I may adopt this solution into 'my' library? (Its results are
> much better then mine!)

http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/html/whatsthis.html states that whatever is 
available through the LSR is "public domain", so you can - if you want - simply 
copy that snippet to your personal library and do with it whatever you want.
However ...

> 
> 3) The next question is indeed, whether this result shall be integrated
> or is already integrated into the openlilylib. I will check this before
> I do the next step.

... no, it isn't yet.
The anaLYsis package has pretty sophisticated modules for frames and arrows, 
but the "harmony" module has only been created as a stub, storing some stuff 
from that mailing list thread for future reference (in the `harmony-initial` 
branch).
Klaus Blum is listed in that LSR snippet as the author, and he happens to be 
the maintainer of the anaLYsis package, BTW.

I would love to see that module be functional, especially since I urgently need 
a solution to update a bunch of music examples in a large document, but I 
haven't found the time to look into it yet. So I'd be more than willing to 
collaborate on that.

As I wrote in a previous reply such a package will eventually have to support 
multiple (if not arbitrary) styles of formatting analysis symbols. However, 
that doesn't mean that one has to get everything right at once. It is 
sufficient to have such extensibility and flexibility in mind right from the 
start.

Best
Urs


> 
> with best regards Karsten
> 
> On Sun, 2019-10-27 at 22:39 +0000, Urs Liska wrote:
> 
>> Oops, forgot to CC the list.
>> 
>> But one more remark: You may have a look at the thread starting with
>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2019-04/msg00335.html and 
>> there especially the ZIP
>> archive attached to
>> https://lists.gnu.o
>> rg/archive/html/lilypond-user/2019-04/msg00351.html which gives two
>> really beautiful LilyPond renderings.
>> 
>> Urs
>> 
>> 27. Oktober 2019 21:48, "Urs Liska" <address@hidden> schrieb:
>> 
>> Hi Karsten,
>> 
>> I will have a closer look into this ASAP.
>> But in the meantime it may be rewarding for you to have a look at
>> the http://ctan.org/pkg/lyluatex
>> package.
>> 
>> In addition I would encourage you to consider integrating your
>> efforts with
>> https://github.com/openlilylib/analysis where we even have a stub
>> for a harmony module.
>> One caveat though: a "perfect" tool for musicologists will have to
>> support not only one style of
>> analysis symbols.
>> Regarding musicological use cases you might want to also have a
>> look at
>> https://github.com/openlilylib/scholarly,
>> https://github.com/uliska/lyluatexmp and
>> https://github.com/uliska/lycritrprt (although the last two are
>> pretty preliminary). Maybe also
>> https://github.com/uliska/lilyglyphs
>> 
>> Best
>> Urs
>> 
>> Am 27. Oktober 2019 17:31:28 MEZ schrieb Karsten Reincke <
>> address@hidden>:
>> 
>>> Dear Friends;
>>> 
>>> Musicologists need more than writing pure music scores. They must
>>> be
>>> able to embed the score of music samples into their scientific
>>> texts.
>>> And they must be able to integrate the symbols of the functional
>>> harmony theory into the score of their music samples.
>>> 
>>> For using Lilypond with LaTeX there exists a well established
>>> method to
>>> embed the scores into the texts: lilypond-book. But there does
>>> not
>>> exist a good, sufficient and appropriate method to integrate the
>>> analysis symbols into the scores. (Unfortunately, you cannot
>>> combine
>>> the LaTeX and the Lilypond techniques, because lilypond-book
>>> finally
>>> embeds a picture into the LaTeX code).
>>> 
>>> Howsoever, the needs of a LaTeX loving musicologists can
>>> completely be
>>> fulfilled by using LaTex + MusixTeX + harmony (a LaTeX package).
>>> (see
>>> attached file cadenca2-by-musixtex-harmony.png) But in this case,
>>> the
>>> musicologist must unfortunately deal with the awkward syntax of
>>> MusixTeX which he probably does not want.
>>> 
>>> Hence we have a problem: either we use Lilypond (and cannot
>>> express,
>>> what we have to do) or we use MusixTex (and reduce our
>>> productivity).
>>> 
>>> For solving this challenge, I started to develop a GUILE based
>>> Lilypond
>>> library named 'harmonyli' which follows the idea(s) of the LaTeX
>>> package harmony. I published it under the MIT license in a github
>>> repository [ https://github.com/kreincke/harmonyli ]. (If you
>>> feel,
>>> that another license would better fit the needs and habits of the
>>> Lilypond community, feel free to make respective proposals). This
>>> repository contains the lib and an example (including a
>>> Makefile). This
>>> example is the Lilypond code of the MusixTex-eample above (see
>>> attached
>>> file cadenca2-by-lilypond-harmonyli.png)
>>> 
>>> As you can see, the lilypond result is still a bit ugly,
>>> especially if
>>> you compare it with the MusixTeX solution. Hence, I need your
>>> help for
>>> improving the lib 'harmonyli':
>>> 
>>> a) How can we place the number under the main functional symbols
>>> (T, D,
>>> S, Tp, Sp Dp, Tg, Sg, etc) [ this number indicates which tone is
>>> played
>>> by th bass ] exactly in the middle of the functional harmony
>>> symbols?
>>> 
>>> b) how can we place the stack of numbers right aside of the main
>>> symbol
>>> as a superscriptblock really near by the symbol and without
>>> losing the
>>> feature, that each number of the stack can contain more than only
>>> one
>>> number (for enabling us to express grace notes like D4>3)?
>>> 
>>> c) How can we align the symbols in a better way - just as it is
>>> done by
>>> the orginal LaTeX lib harmony?
>>> 
>>> d) how can we enforce that the next note is printed into the
>>> staff if
>>> and when the analysis symbol of the note before is completely
>>> printed?
>>> 
>>> e) How can we enforce that all analysis symbols are printed in
>>> row with
>>> suffcient space between them to understand them correctly?
>>> 
>>> f) How can cross out the main harmony symbols for indicating that
>>> the
>>> base tone is missed (=not played)? Do we need additional symbols
>>> in a
>>> extra font or is there a technique to strike out any text?
>>> 
>>> g) How can we condense / refactor the code so, that we do not
>>> have to
>>> write the same code twice or more.
>>> 
>>> If you need to see the existing code, have a look at
>>> https://github.com/kreincke/harmonyli/blob/master/inc.harmonyli.ly .
>>> I
>>> appreciate any help you can give. I want to develop a perfect
>>> tool for
>>> musicologists - simply because I need it for a larger work of
>>> myself ;-
>>> )
>>> 
>>> How can you help me? Feel free
>>> a) to comment this mail
>>> b) to clone the rep, integrate your improvements and resend a
>>> pull
>>> request
>>> c) become an official developer by sending me your github account
>>> 
>>> So: many thanks for your support beforehand, I am looking forward
>>> to
>>> your proposals.
>>> 
>>> heartfully your Karsten
>> 
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail
>> gesendet.
> 
> --
> Karsten Reincke /\/\ (+49|0) 170 / 927 78 57
> Im Braungeröll 31 >oo< mailto:address@hidden
> 60431 Frankfurt a.M. \/ http://www.fodina.de/kr