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Re: [Traverso-user] Traverso forum

From: Remon Sijrier
Subject: Re: [Traverso-user] Traverso forum
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:53:56 +0200

Good evening,

Lets answer the topic starter first, registering to the T-forum. I've no idea why it doesn't work for you, did you try another browser, then the one you used at first ? Registering works fine with Firefox, IE, Chrome etc.

Of course you can post your questions here as well, the list if rather low volume, so you won't get flooded with traverso-user emails :)

Joining the campfire.....

Traverso never reached a mature enough level to be actually usable, it's innovative computer/human interface has been welcomed by a few users that for some reason are the users with at least a technical and sometimes software engineering background.
Most of the (other) users however did not understand how the mouse/keyboard interaction worked, or were simply too lazy to find out how it was supposed to be used (and I can't blame them, I'm one of those users!)

Some of you probably noticed, or not, but I've been working on openoctave for some time, and among other things, I worked on it's shortcut system to make it more qwerty friendly. I had a lot of help from a user who has used DAW's longer then I'm aware there are computers.
IMHO the shortcut system (which in a way is the 'defacto' shortcut system all of us are used to) of openoctave was no match to T's, but the one thing that kept hitting me was that although it wasn't as 'innovative' it was easier to use, and faster!

This problem is due the fact to support double clicks like < <  K > > and < < K K > > you need a timeout to register the second key(s). So after hitting a key, the input handler was always waiting for ~ 0.2 seconds.
After a good deal of brainstorming it was decided that double key presses (which even I couldn't hit properly all the time!) where of no use to the power user, let alone a casual user. Instead, a single key press/release and key press-and-hold were the most powerful ones, and always instantaneous!

I'll explain by one example why using this method is (much) better then the 'old one'

The function Zoom had many key strokes to be remembered: < Z >,  < Z A >, < Z X >, < < Z > > and [ Z ]. Maybe I forgot a couple, and remember that to use the Zoom function, you always had the 0.2 second delay.

Now Zoom has just one key, which by default is Z. As soon as you hit the Z key, zooming is active. Now, you can (while holding Z) hit another key to for example:
Expand all tracks
Retract all tracks
Zoom all tracks to a predefined height by using a numerical number
Zoom horizontally by moving the mouse or using the arrow keys
Zoom the pointed track vertically by using the up/down arrow key
And the list goes on.....

So essentially you get way more functionality, but you only have to remember one key. The 'modifier' keys that are available are shown in the Shortcut Help dock widget as soon as you hit a key like Z that supports modifier keys.

Modifier keys are used in a generic way, so once you know how to use it for Zoom, you'll quickly discover they work in the same or similar way for example Gain, Pan, Moving objects around etc etc etc.

The changes that made this possible also added the possibility to use the regular modifier keys Alt, Ctrl and Shift, one of you noticed this in a screenshot.
So if you want to use the key M for function Move and Marker, then this is now possible by pressing:
M for Moving objects around and
Ctrl+ M for Moving/Adding Markers
or whatever key/modifier you want to use for it, since there is a shortcut manager now, you can create your own keymap the way you want.

Traverso now also supports mixing tracks into buses, it works, but it's indeed not finished.
Due this, mixing your project down to file also needs to be fixed, the audio pipeline work has not been finished.

IMHO, it would be crazy to fork on the codebase of 0.49.2, way better to fix the remaining issues in git, and release Traverso 0.9.0, and get something usable for both power users and the casual user, that now can point and click with the mouse for about everything, and the power user who can rely on the keyboard only, or a mix of both.

On the matter of changing the shortcut system: It was announced on traverso-devel, and no-one complained:

Will Traverso go the route of the dodo ?

I don't know, one thing I learned is that every user has his/her own opinion on how 'it should work' and that at the moment basically no-one needs Traverso. Just look at this list, it has been dormant for basically 6 years (it's how long this list has been online)
The forum is no busy place either.

It of course could also mean, T is perfect as it is now :-P

Anyway, right now I'm busy running my own local business, so there is little time and energy left atm to work on anything else.

The other thing is that I myself have no use for Traverso, so the only reason to work on T would be for just the fun of creating something that works. The electricity bill, among many other bills do have to be paid though, so earning real money right now is preferred over working pro deo on a program that receives marginal to no feedback from its users, and, apart from a few users, don't want to pay for it. (which is understandable btw, I myself would be reluctant to pay for features without the guarantee that it'll be implemented anytime soon if ever)
Big projects like Ardour and openoctave barely manage to make enough (if any) money by fund raising to pay one developer full time.....
Oh well, I still like to finish current git to make it releasable, so the time and effort put into it will be fruitful for anyone who wants to use Traverso.

I'm always open for suggestions, feedback, a large user base who pay real money for full time development so I'll become a multi millionaire :-)

Best regards,


2012/9/21 plutek <address@hidden>
From: Remon Sijrier <address@hidden>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:39:13 +0200

> I'm alive!!!
> :D
> First I'll get myself a decent dinner, then I'll finish with a plate of
> discussing if Traverso is all changed or not ;)

remon! great to hear from you, after all this time!  ;-)

please, eat well.... and then we shall look forward to traverso-storytime around the campfire....


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