Re: [Chicken-hackers] Re: separate build directory support for Chicken

[Peter Bex]

On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 10:30:13AM -0800, Elf wrote:
> 
> a) who uses pkgsrc besides the bsds?

Solaris people tend to rely on pkgsrc because it's the only sane way to
install 3rd party packages.  There are even some Linux distros that use
pkgsrc for their package manager.  I've used it on Mac OS X when I still
used it to get my Unix stuff.  Worked great, and a lot more intuitive
than macports (or do you prefer Fink?).

Why are you talking about pkgsrc?  This was about pmake.

> b) from a brief look at the installation docs, yes, it does use bmake...but
>     the first thing the bootstrapper does is build it and install it.  it
>     comes with pkgsrc.  if the package has to bootstrap its make before it
>     can build itself, thats a fairly good indication that its not a common
>     utility.

This is desirable: pkgsrc has to be self-sufficient.  How are you going
to install make and the various other infrastructural tools it needs
otherwise?  Using another package manager?  Why are you using pkgsrc then?

> c) looking at the build notes for the various platforms for pkgsrc... if
>     this is supposed to be BETTER, i fear whats worse.  the toolset isnt
>     even consistent between platforms.
>     eg,  solaris: gnu binutils not supported, yet gcc is preferred strongly.

No idea about this.  Remember that it's much more likely that this is about
about building of the packages themselves rather than the bootstrapping
process (which is where make is built).  For example, it's very likely that
a lot of software in pkgsrc makes silly assumptions about the build
environment.  Like "oh, we're on Solaris, so we're using Sun utilities".
Hardly pkgsrc's fault.  Or relevant to the BSD Make discussion we were having.

If you really want to know, ask on the pkgsrc mailinglist.

>          darwin: it needs its own filesystem, which disables journalling on
>                  the base filesystem.

This is because pkgsrc includes a lot of Unix tools, and many of these
programs assume a case-sensitive filesystem.  If you extract a tarball which
includes files with mixed case filenames, this will break. This is _not_ a
bmake deficiency.

>          all forms of bsd besides netbsd: warnings about how it can bork their
>                                           native toolchains.

Not toolchains, but package managers.  pkgsrc uses the same names for the binary
programs it installs as these other systems.  pkg_add, pkg_delete, pkg_info.
This is hardly relevant to the BSD Make discussion.

> d) this is an improvement?  i can see why gnu's make is so popular.

You didn't raise a single objection against BSD make, but rather against pkgsrc
and why you think it doesn't work.

Regards,
Peter
-- 
http://sjamaan.ath.cx
--
"The process of preparing programs for a digital computer
 is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically
 and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic
 experience much like composing poetry or music."
                                                        -- Donald Knuth

pgp0nWTygEUHy.pgp
Description: PGP signature