Re: [Gzz] Summing up...

[Tuomas Lukka]

On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 02:34:50PM +0200, Benja Fallenstein wrote:
> Tuomas Lukka wrote:
> 
> >On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 12:56:27PM +0200, Benja Fallenstein wrote:
> > 
> >
> >>The problem is that the connections assume that (1,1) transforms to the 
> >>lower right corner of the rectangle, but with (w=2, h=2)-- or 
> >>(w=1,h=1)--, it's still the ul corner, just one or two pixels away.
> >>   
> >>
> >
> >Wait, now I don't understand. Could you explain the problem in more detail?
> >
> 
> Hm. I don't know how.
> 
> Ok, another example. Let's say we have a cell with the bounds (x=100, 
> y=100, w=50, h=20). This used to be our coordinate system, so if there 
> was a connection downward, it would be anchored at (x+w/2, y+h) = (125, 
> 110). Nowadays our coordinate system is (x=100, y=100, w=2, h=2), so the 
> anchor point will be at (x+w/2, y+h) = (101, 102)-- for practical 
> purposes, the upper left corner of the cell.

Ahh, because of no scaling in AWT. Ok.

Should we make AWT scale, too?

> >>What do you think about my proposed mechanism to do paragraphs?
> >>   
> >>
> >
> >The extra cell on some dimension?
> >
> >That's one alternative. I'm not sure at all what's the best way.
> >Sometimes I think just two enters next to each other would be good - 
> >we've been getting into lot of trouble over putting too much 
> >into the ZZ structure, maybe trying the other alternative
> >wouldn't hurt.
> >
> 
> Hm. Seriously, I don't think that "don't put data into zzstructure, it's 
> bad" is a sane philosophy for this project. We *have* also gotten into 
> trouble over not putting enough into zzstructure (e.g. cell existance).

I know. This is why we need to consider the alternatives carefully.
Some ZZ structures which are interpreted by a program seem to be surprisingly
fragile, and sometimes difficult to change with the general 
utilities.

I've been lately thinking a lot about this and whether we should, instead
of using structure as data, emphasize the point of using the structure
directly by humans. Because there things aren't as fragile.

> I really think paragraphs should be visible in zzstructure for 
> rearrangement. 

Ahh, that's a very different thing, actually. This means that there needs
to be a "structure view" in which the paragraphs show in different cells.

This is not the same as storing paragraph tags in the structure.

> Also, there's the point (as in this case) that you often 
> (but not always) want a cell that doesn't start/end in a linebreak to be 
> its own paragraph in the containment structure. 

Sorry, what?

> And there's the problem 
> of paragraph styles: if you mark paragraph breaks through characters, 
> where in the enfilade do you store the paragraph style? Esp. since there 
> is one paragraph break less than there are paragraphs.

Now, that's a point where using the structure would be appropriate.

The point is that inserting a paragraph break should probably be equivalent
to inserting two linebreaks. However, making a header out of something
is quite different.

        Tuomas