Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Moving Forward

[Deb Nicholson]

   On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 10:28 PM Thomas Lord <[1]lord@basiscraft.com>
   wrote:

   >  Thank you for raising this. The recent (admittedly misreported) gaff
   When people launch a press campaign to lie about you and defame you on
   the basis of a libel, that is not your "gaff".

   The "gaff" is jumping into the Epstein conversation without
   understanding the context at all. The entire MIT community had been
   discussing the way women are treated as second class citizens because
   men of like Epstein -- for weeks. Women have been sharing stories of
   important networking parties that they weren't invited to because only
   underage girls were invited. They've been talking about who gets
   invited to what meetings and who gets promoted at MIT and how that
   drives the focus of the work the. Jumping in to say, "Maybe one of
   those men who slept with an underage girl didn't know she was being
   trafficked" was an extreme case of not reading the room. So yeah,
   that's a "gaff."
   It also brought to the center of the conversation, many of the other
   times that women have been belittled, written off or subjected to
   harassment here in free software.
   The article in Vice was badly done. But every article in Vice is badly
   done. That isn't a conspiracy, it's just crappy journalism from an
   outlet well-known for crappy journalism.
   The outrage (and demand for new leadership) is coming from real women
   who have tried to participate in free software and been rebuffed by
   sexist behavior who felt that perhaps at this moment they might
   *finally* be heard.
   I offer this perspective in the spirit of helping the free software
   community move forward. If we get stuck on the Vice article (seriously,
   no one trusts Vice) without addressing any of the legitimate issues,
   then we won't be able to move forward.
   Best,
   Deb

   No reasonable person could have published any of the widely read
   attacks.  They are intellectually and socially dishonest, objectively,
   and to the core.

   -t


   On 2019-09-23 19:09, Deb Nicholson wrote:

      On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 8:36 PM A. Mani <[1][2]a.mani.cms@gmail.com>
      wrote:
        On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 5:36 AM Aaron Wolf
   <[2][3]wolftune@riseup.net>
        wrote:
        >
        > On 2019-09-23 4:39 p.m., A. Mani wrote:
        > >
        > > The misinterpretation part is hardly the problem. The bigger
        problem
        > > is the number of reports on
        > > RMS's misogyny, anti-feminist position and doings that have
        > > accumulated over time. These were not so well-known before
   even
        within
        > > the free software community before -- at most people invoked
        various
        > > disorders to explain RMS's behavior. In one keynote, RMS's
        response to
        > > a question was
        > > "Oh wait you're a woman! I don't answer questions from women."
        > > Furthermore there are ill-informed statements on feminism in
        RMS's
        > > blog -- they mean RMS is still a slave of the patriarchy.
        > >
        >
        > Apologies for language pickiness, but I think what you're
        describing is
        > more like sexism than misogyny. RMS is a product of a
   particularly
        > male-dominated sexist tech culture within an overall sexist
        society.
        > Combine that with social awkwardness, and that's a pretty
        parsimonious
        > explanation for RMS' behavior.
        >
        OK
      Yes, and a freedom movement -- a movement that seeks to empower
   people
      -- ought to be held to a higher standard. What is the point of
   building
      a better world that carefully maintains all of the sexism of
   mainstream
      (proprietary) software communities? The FSF is incorporated as a
      charity with a mission that definitely does not include "upholding
   or
      exceeding mainstream tech's sexism."
        > The claim that he holds overall anti-feminist positions seems
        inaccurate
        > to me from all I've seen of his stated views.
        >
        Sexism leads to dismissal of feminist viewpoints
      +1
        > That question response quote is so extreme, the most reasonable
        > assumption is that it was said as a facetious joke. I have never
        > encountered that anecdote before, so I have no context. But
   taking
        it at
        > pure face value makes no sense to me whatsoever.
        That talk was terribly bad:
        [3][4]https://twitter.com/sh4na/status/1174034117077413889
        "Oh he was called out on it, for decades. There are many blog
   posts
        and mailing list threads calling him out on this particular
   incident
        and all the others. He never gave a shit about any of it, neither
        did
        his followers or the @fsf or the orgs inviting him to speak."
        Strangely this was not stated on Linuxchix website and elsewhere.
      Thank you for raising this. The recent (admittedly misreported) gaff
      merely brought to light what has been happening within the free
      software movement for years. We can't reasonably expect people to
      believe we are building a better, freer world without a strong
      commitment to an inclusive movement and that means we can't keep
      enabling and encouraging sexist behavior.
      Best,
      Deb
        Best
        A Mani
        Prof.Dr.(Miss) A Mani
        CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS, IEEE
        Senior Member, International Rough Set Society
        Homepage: [4][5]http://www.logicamani.in
        Blog: [5][6]https://logicamani.blogspot.in/
        Research Gate: [6][7]https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mani_A
        [7]sip:[8]girlprofessor@ekiga.net
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        s
   References
      1. mailto:[11]a.mani.cms@gmail.com
      2. mailto:[12]wolftune@riseup.net
      3. [13]https://twitter.com/sh4na/status/1174034117077413889
      4. [14]http://www.logicamani.in/
      5. [15]https://logicamani.blogspot.in/
      6. [16]https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mani_A
      7. mailto:[17]sip:[18]girlprofessor@ekiga.net
      8. mailto:[19]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
      9.
   [20]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

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References

   1. mailto:lord@basiscraft.com
   2. mailto:a.mani.cms@gmail.com
   3. mailto:wolftune@riseup.net
   4. https://twitter.com/sh4na/status/1174034117077413889
   5. http://www.logicamani.in/
   6. https://logicamani.blogspot.in/
   7. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mani_A
   8. mailto:girlprofessor@ekiga.net
   9. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  10. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus
  11. mailto:a.mani.cms@gmail.com
  12. mailto:wolftune@riseup.net
  13. https://twitter.com/sh4na/status/1174034117077413889
  14. http://www.logicamani.in/
  15. https://logicamani.blogspot.in/
  16. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mani_A
  17. mailto:sip
  18. mailto:girlprofessor@ekiga.net
  19. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  20. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
  21. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  22. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss