Re: [Pan-users] WAAAY OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Panon Windows?

[Alan Meyer]

I did say earlier that I would love to discuss religion but
didn't want to bore everyone.  Well, I'm weak.  I've given in to
temptation ...

Joe Zeff <address@hidden> wrote:

...
> And, I might add, that entire bit of "salvation by faith" is
> completely foreign to Judaism.  If you wish to earn Paradise,
> you do it by following the Law; for us actions really do speak
> louder than words.

I was brought up in a "Reform" Jewish congregation and was taught
by my rabbi that heaven and hell don't exist at all and there is
no afterlife, i.e., no such thing as paradise - though he was
very circumspect about how he phrased such thoughts, being
careful not to offend believers who disagreed with him.

I think it's probably safest to say XXX is foreign to the version
of religion YYY that I was brought up in rather than to make
blanket statements about Christianity, Judaism or Islam.

For myself, I finally gave up religion altogether.  My problem
was not with the rabbi, whom I liked a lot, or the ethical
precepts, which I thought were very good, but the
supernaturalism.  There are many versions of Christianity and
Judaism that accept evolution, that are at least skeptical about
miracles, and that emphasize ethics rather than ritual.  But the
concept of God leaves me cold.  I have studied a lot of philosophy
(went to grad school at the University of Illinois and did all
the course work for a PhD in it) but, although I read a great
deal on the subject, I never found an argument that convinced me
that God exists.

There are some things I can't see that I nevertheless believe in,
like protons, electrons, magnetic fields, and the core of the
earth.  But I've got scientific reasons for believing in those.
I haven't found any for believing in God and find the whole idea
of a being who stands outside of the universe, is not subject to
physical laws, but is able nevertheless to somehow create and
influence physical reality by supernatural means - to be
antithetical to all we have learned about the universe.  I'm with
Dawkins on that.  He's a little abrasive and maybe more blunt
than he should be, but I think he's got it right (See Richard
Dawkins, _The God Delusion_.)

    Alan