Re: [Adonthell-general] Sects and Factions

[Kai Sterker]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:01:41 +0200 Benjamin Walther-Franks wrote:

> So every dwarf would devote himself to one of these founding fathers, 
> probably each clan to one (?) Some might be more, some less convinced
> and influenced by their founding fathers teaching/virtues, the former
> taking on a role that priests have in other societies/races, the
> latter just accepting him and living by his name.
> 
> As the dwarfs also have negative habits, there would be deities for
> these aswell, ("Shakluz, The Father of Greed"), and some misguided
> dwarves following these aswell, although the major dwarf population
> would be ashamed of them and would try to make them non-existent by
> not mentioning them and repressing them. Don't some nice plot ideas
> pop up there...?
> 
> My ideas have kind of developed as i write, and I like the idea of
> those half-goddish founding fathers quite well...

I'll leave the details to you, Andrew, but I like Ben's ideas. After
all, the founding fathers (and possibly their wives?) seem to play a
role in dwarven society. Why else would their legends deal with them and
their clans be named after them?


> What comes to my mind straight away is to have four schools of magic
> after the four elements, as simple as that. 

That was my first thought as well. But then I thought no, this is too
simple ;).


Leaving all these ideas we had so far aside, I think there is one
question we have to ask: what is the purpose of a faction, and what
effects do factions have on gameplay?

Before we don't know the answer, I don't think we can really decide how
to handle schools of magic.

As far as gameplay goes, I think factions should have the following
properties:

* The player may join factions. 
  This shouldn't be required, but optional. It's partly along the lines
  of your idea of letting the player develop his own story as he gets
  along.

* Joining a faction offers certain benefits.
  Other faction members are more friendly, of course. Some spells,
  feats, songs, etc. might be faction specific.

* A faction offers additional side quests.
  For one there are is the usual thing: some faction bigwig asks the
  player to do something for the faction. But I would also extend this
  to other quests. Some ordinary NPCs could hand out tasks only to
  certain faction members. For example, a Ranger might be asked to
  restore order in the forest, while they won't trust a Thief with
  that.

* Certain factions exclude each other.
  That's easy. You can't be Ranger and Witch-hunter at the same time. At
  least not for long.


For magic schools, this implies that it has to be possible to learn
magic without joining any school. If you do join however, you might have
easier access to some spells, or they are cheaper. Certain spells would
even be exclusive. Joining one school could automatically prevent you
from joining opposing schools. Certain prerequisites might have to be
fullfilled to join a certain school. For example a certain rank or the
good ol' alignment.

With all that in mind, I think four schools for the four elements aren't
enough. Of course there could be schools based on the elements, but I
wouldn't make it too obvious. The player should be able to figure out
himself that the Illusionists mainly practice water magic. (Just an
example)

Still, like you say, a member of a certain school of magic (or several
schools) might follow a certain pattern in his actions. ("Oh, he's from
the school of Illusion, I know what I can expect from him!" would still
apply)

OTOH, you might just visit a mage, regardless of his faction and ask
him: "What can you teach me?". Then he'll either say: "This and that,
but it'll cost you." or "Hey, we're both Illusionists. I have something
very special for you." Not as blunt as that of course, but you should
get the idea.


> Even if they are no great team-workers, a magic-practising elf would
> choose the school he feels most attracted to, and with that have
> something in common with anone else that followed this way - after all
> each element brings certain intersts/devotions with it, as the spells
> are different aswell. Of course he wouldn't just be limited to the
> spells of that particular school, and there are enough elves not being
> devouted to any school in particular, or even an individual going his
> own way, as Kai suggests (Again nice ideas for plots...somebody write
> this down! ;)

Well, I would make that school thing something more optional. Some Elves
join, other don't. Some join a single school, others multiple, and yet
others found their own school. But basically we seem agree here :).


> Elves of the school of earth would probably be as practical as an elf
> can get, and fire sorcerers would be more destructive and chaotic than
> the average elf, etc. Kai once had a pretty good summary of what each
> element stands for, I'll try to summarize what I can remember here
> (could you add to this Kai):
> 
> earth - construction, healing
> fire - destruction, chaos, damage
> water - illusion, changing
> air - control

I would add 'protection' to earth, move 'healing' to water and
'illusion' to air. That's mainly a personal taste though. Not sure if
there is any 'official' mapping somewhere.

In general, I am fine with this list (no matter how it looks like in
detail.) But I would see it rather as a guideline for the creation of
spells. I.e. how many ranks in what element does spell xyz require? I
wouldn't base magic schools directly on those. First of all, plenty of
spells would require ranks in multiple elements. They wouldn't really
fit into any school based on one of the four elements. Then you can't
really exclude a Water mage from all Fire spells. I think this would be
too restrictive. But a Healer might be excluded from becoming a Battle
mage, while he might still be allowed to join a group that mainly
focusses on fighting undead. 

OTOH, another player might learn some healing spells, some offensive
spells and a spell to turn undead. But he wouldn't belong to any of
those factions. And if he tried to join the Healers they would refuse
him (unlike the other two). But without joining any of the factions, he
might not be able to learn their most powerful spell, or he has to
complete a difficult quest to get it.


To reach an end, I think that factions in general, but also the magic
schools should help to make the player's life easier in some respects,
but also limit his actions in other areas. Other than that, it should be
left to the player what he does.

Kai