Re: Is Elisp really that slow?

[Emanuel Berg]

Stefan Huchler wrote:

> But that has nothing to do with modal vs non
> modal. Modal is more efficiant, something
> simple as copy / paste is not only less keys
> to press but literally more healthy, pressing
> c + reposition + v instead of M-k +
> reposition + C-Y is just better for
> your fingers.

I'm not following the "reposition" stuff,
but...

If you have your hands/fingers, on at asdf and
jkl; (and thumbs on SPC) on a modern keyboard,
where the keyboard manufacturer's Alt is our
Meta, then M-k requires moving your left thumb,
in my case, ~3.5cm horizontally, and your right
hand, not at all, as the middle finger is
already at `k' position.

As for C-y, on your right hand, this requires
a move with your index finger from `j' to
`y', which is again 3.5cm, but now to the NE
which makes a tiny bit more strain to it.
On the other hand... :) ... on the left hand,
moving your pinky finger from `a' to Control is
5cm SSE, which I agree isn't optimal.

As you say later on this was designed for
keyboards where Control where at another place,
and it can be arranged (in the Linux
VT/ttys/the console as well as in X) to have
Control and CAPS change places. This is is not
a bad idea - I tried it once, but by then I was
so used to the position of Control and besides
I had rewired CAPS as well (see my HP, URL in
signature; search for CAPS) so it was too late
for me. That said, I don't think C-y is
_that_ bad!

> And for programmers 50% of commands you do as
> programmer are not basic text manipulation
> like insert/delete key.

If you mean the manufacturer's insert/delete,
they mean you move you hands away from the
asdfjkl; position which reduces speed. If you
mean C-d and DEL, I dont' think they are bad.

> hitting a long C-c C-q or even longer
> commands is not so easy, even you don't get
> pain in your fingers.

`C-c C-q' is undefined in many modes. If you
don't like it for the modes where it is and
where you use it, why don't you redefine it?
It's simple.

> I just think that the GNU project should
> prioratise the health of their Users more
> than the rememberability.

Yes, here I agree 100%.

> So I hit my easy accessable Menu key

? ... what is the "Menu key"? :O

> and then afterwards the c key for copying as
> example, the holding of keys and then
> stretching to other keys is what hurts the
> pinky so much and why C-c C-f as example is
> a horrible command.

Same comment as for `C-c C-q'.

> Yet how do you remember M-k and C-y because
> you know it means kill/yank, else this
> shortcut makes no sense, so at least if you
> prioratise rememberability over the health of
> the developers be consequent, if you call it
> copy and paste make it C-c or M-c and for
> paste C-p. Then you would at least
> be consequent.

Mnemonic keys should never be prioritized over
ergonomics. But again, I don't think M-k is
bad, and if C-y is bad, not by much. Also,
don't forget to take into consideration every
other cursor/point movement and editing command
which we can do with a keystroke, but other
editors require one to use the mouse to (maybe)
do something similar!

> That C-p is bound to previous line is no real
> reason because you also have they arrow keys

The arrow keys!? Oh no, C-p is much better.
The arrow keys require you to move your right
hand from jkl;. Instead, it is better to think
of ijkl as arrow keys (i = up, k = down, j =
left, and l = right). I have set up tons of
keys to work on that, scrolling not the
least:

    https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/scroll.el

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