Re: [help-texinfo] Want curly braces around key sequences (Was: Overfull vbox in Concept Index leads to a blank page in the middle of the index)

[Robert Weiner]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden> wrote:
>> > the result [of using braces around key sequences in Info manuals) will 
>> > confuse the reader
>>
>> This is an assumption you are making that has not been borne out by the 
>> experience of users of these manuals
>> throughout the years.
>
> Does my experience of 30 years of reading Info manuals count?  We can
> ask RMS to provide a second opinion.

Of course I highly respect both of you and consider all of your
feedback and will seek more.  On a topic like this, if you really care
about it, we would ask that you look at and try out Hyperbole before
finalizing your own judgement on this.

>
>> Prior to this discussion here, we have never heard from a single user about 
>> any problems with this notation
>
> That can be explained in several ways that have nothing to do with the 
> notation.

I am pointing it out as a piece of evidence I think is relevant to the
discussion.  We here about all sorts of things from users and this has
not been one.

>
>> As you have said before regarding Emacs features, since it has been working 
>> a certain way for years (with
>> my packages), until a better, more consistent techinque is proposed, I will 
>> stay with this and let the users say
>> whether it is an issue or not. And again, maybe you will look at it and try 
>> it out before dismissing it.
>
> My point is that if this is a better method, the entire Texinfo system
> should switch to it, rather than doing this in the manuals of a single
> project.

I am suggesting that this be considered while not expecting it.  I
think it would be an improvement and maybe others will as well.  You
may work that broadly and I hope you do; I work only on the packages I
publish or patches I provide to GNU projects.

>
>> 1. The display is consistent across .pdf, .html and .info outputs. The same 
>> markup can be used within any
>> standard text as well (similar to what markdown does and we know how popular 
>> that is).
>
> Texinfo explicitly doesn't attempt to do this, since the capabilities
> of the various output formats are so different.

There is the problem.  We have a solution for this particular area
where there is no need to differentiate among the formats, so why
continue to do so.  By using visible text delimiters in all formats
you could solve a number of these issues.

>
>> 2. Hyperbole recognizes global key sequences surrounded by braces and can 
>> activate their key bindings
>> when selected with the mouse (or via a keyboard key). This is great for 
>> demos or for frequently accessed long
>> sequences that may be hard to remember.
>
> Any reasons Hyperbole couldn't be taught to recognize any other
> format, including the standard Texinfo one?

Because, as you said, it differs between different output formats.
For any given output format, Hyperbole could recognize the delimiters
and usage if they were specific enough but I would suggest that single
quotes are not, i.e. 'C-x o', as the single quotes could generate too
many false positives.  Surrounding this by braces does work, {'C-x o'}
as of course does {C-x o}.

>  If not, does that mean
> Hyperbole doesn't support key sequences documented by other GNU
> packages?

Yes, it means you cannot activate key bindings with a mouse click from
other GNU documentation.  But lots of other Hyperbole functionality
works for GNU packages and documentation.

Bob