Re: Support RMS

[Deb Nicholson]

   On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:39 AM Ali Reza Hayati <[1]hayati@riseup.net>
   wrote:

     Hello Deb,
     I hope you're well.


   Thanks, you too.

     Sorry for your experience. However, I should mention that I've been
     working directly with RMS along with many women and never seen such
     thing. I can't explain anything on behalf of RMS or GNU, but I can
     talk about my personal experience and my women colleagues which was
     nothing but nice.

   An interesting thing about men who harass women is that they usually
   don't do it to men. Men who let the community know that they "don't
   believe in harassment" are the last people to find out it's happening,
   because no one feels safe telling them.

     You mentioned people leaving, I should mention thousands who are
     coming back because of RMS.

   Hundreds of people have been driven away for free software for many,
   many years. Women have stories of his behavior going back to MIT. A few
   of those women are still in tech and could've been contributing to free
   software for the last 30 years. We lose women and people who won't
   stand for the harassment of women all the time.

     As far as I'm concerned, RMS is not convicted of anything and there
     is no proof of harassment. Until then, I urge everybody to defend
     truth against false accusations.

   I'm sorry that you are unwilling to believe the women who have worked
   closely with RMS in the FSF office or on the GNU project. Or the women
   he has interacted with at tech conferences or sci-fi conferences. Or
   the women he has mistreated at MIT.
   I hope that you will consider that all of us would rather be doing
   something else with our time and the only reason to speak up is because
   we care about the future of free software.
   Best,
   Deb

     On March 26, 2021 1:18:13 PM UTC, Deb Nicholson
     <[2]deb@eximiousproductions.com> wrote:
     >Hi,
     >I'm a former FSF staff person and a former GNU maintainer who has
     left most
     >of the FSF & GNU mailing lists that I was on because of the
     extremely
     >toxic, harassment-filled environments on those lists. I stayed on
     the
     >LibrePlanet list because it's usually ok and I appreciate seeing
     the
     >occasional campaign messages and actions to take in support of free
     >software.
     >
     >RMS inspires a toxic, sexist and unrepentant culture. I'm one of
     the people
     >who has asked him -- many times -- to take a strong stance against
     sexism
     >in GNU, to stop treating women as second-class citizens, and to
     re-consider
     >his utterly clueless and disrespectful treatment of transgender
     people in
     >our communities.
     >
     >I want free software to win. I want everyone to be able to choose
     free
     >software for everything. There is no way for free software to win
     if
     >hundreds of previously interested people are leaving after they get
     sick of
     >the hateful, sexist and intolerant parts of our communities. People
     take
     >their cue from RMS and he has demonstrated over and over again that
     he is
     >not interested in removing intolerance. If we want a movement that
     grows,
     >instead of a quirky and toxic private club, then RMS shouldn't
     lead.
     >
     >Sincerely,
     >Deb Nicholson
     >
     >On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 8:31 AM Ali Reza Hayati
     <[3]hayati@riseup.net> wrote:
     >
     >> Hello Danny.
     >>
     >> I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt but I don't see anything
     wrong
     >> here. Dark humor is everywhere and many people like it. I've seen
     gay
     >> people liking dark humor about gays for example. As I said, after
     all,
     >> that's just jokes and humor.
     >>
     >> About being offended, again that's not a problem with RMS. Maybe
     he
     >> hasn't be nice to you or people you know but if you want a nice
     person
     >> to lead a foundation, you may need a kid, not a grown up person.
     Every
     >> person may upset you or others in some way. I've upset many
     people in my
     >> life without any intention, to that I apologize to them.
     >>
     >> If you believe RMS is not a good person, that's your opinion and
     >> respectable. If you don't think RMS is a good leader, that's
     again
     >> respectable and may even be a fair point if presented well.
     >>
     >> However, that's not where RMS opposers stand today. What you've
     signed
     >> is based on false accusations and lies. When it comes to
     defending
     >> truth, that statement/letter is completely false.
     >>
     >> I still urge people to support RMS in this matter because
     defending
     >> truth is important.
     >>
     >> Again, I'm sorry that your feelings have been hurt but that's
     just your
     >> personal conflict/disappointment.
     >>
     >> On 26/03/2021 09:06, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
     >> > I am having a difficult time right now. This person Georgia
     shares
     >> > several years of experience working at FSF and directly with
     RMS. Ali,
     >> > their testimony makes me think that maybe the free software
     movement
     >> > needs to move beyond RMS. Here are their words, copied from
     >> > [4]https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
     >> >
     <[5]https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232>:
     >> > “I worked at the FSF from 2015-2018 & was shop steward for a
     while. I
     >> > recall having a months (MONTHS) long conversation with ED John
     Sullivan
     >> > about why racist & sexist 'hacker humor' from the 90s needed to
     be
     >> > removed from [6]gnu.org <[7]http://gnu.org>. rms didn't get why
     it was
     >> harmful.
     >> >
     >> > Also the abortion joke ('contributed' by rms) in a technical
     manual? He
     >> > threw a fit when it was removed, & the energy many people (who
     respected
     >> > him!!) put in to attempting to educate him in why that wasn't
     cool.
     >> >
     >> > The thing that randos who have never had to actually work with
     rms don't
     >> > understand is that MANY people who deeply respected him tried
     to help
     >> > him learn to not objectify women, shout over others at
     Libreplanet as if
     >> > it was his birthday party, stop shit like 'emacs virgins'
     >> >
     >> > Meanwhile that energy, utterly wasted, could've been spent
     advocating
     >> > for free to software and building the inclusive, impractical
     community
     >> > so many people WANT. Spent, instead, on a man's ego, over and
     over.
     >> >
     >> > This whole thing is incredibly depressing. The free software
     community
     >> > is largely full of interesting, rad people - I got to work with
     a bunch
     >> > of people I like & respect & feel inspired by, organizing
     Libreplanet
     >> > was my job & introduced me to amazing people from across the
     world
     >> >
     >> > free software has the ability to do so much good, but there's
     an ugly
     >> > cult of personality around rms, & the fact that he faced
     consequences
     >> > for his creepy Epdtein-adjacent comments and not the decades of
     shitty
     >> > behavior towards women is infuriating & excuses his return
     >> >
     >> > It's easy for people to dismiss shitty words, & because we
     don't focus
     >> > on shitty actions (& actions are easily dismissed by assholes
     sealioning
     >> > for 'evidence' - bc "I saw it/experienced it" is NEVER enough)
     it's
     >> > possible for a floundering FSF to 'uncancel' rms now. DON'T LET
     THEM
     >> >
     >> > My github account was, uh, dusty, to say the least, but I made
     a pull
     >> > request in order to sign on to this letter.
     >> > [8]https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
     <[9]https://rms-open-letter.github.io/>
     >> >
     >> > One final thing: do not shit on FSF staff about this. They
     didn't ask
     >> > for this, they weren't notified in advance of rms' apparently
     impromptu
     >> > announcement, they labor for the organization and for the
     community
     >> > every day. Put pressure on the board and the executive
     director.”
     >> >
     >> > The letter is signed by 40 organizations and over 500
     individuals,
     >> > including dozens of former FSF staff and board members.
     >> >
     >> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 6:04 PM Ali Reza Hayati
     <[10]hayati@riseup.net
     >> > <mailto:[11]hayati@riseup.net>> wrote:
     >> >
     >> >     Recently, RMS announced that he's back on FSF board of
     directors.
     >> Now,
     >> >     some organizations and people are attacking FSF and RMS and
     are
     >> asking
     >> >     them to resign.
     >> >
     >> >     Since the accusations are false, we're asking FSF to resist
     this
     >> >     pressure and continue work for the good of the software
     libre
     >> movement.
     >> >
     >> >     Sending message to [12]info@fsf.org
     <mailto:[13]info@fsf.org> is a way of
     >> >     showing your support. They
     >> >     are acting like mobs and bullies, we should not step down
     from our
     >> >     principals, which are fighting for justice and truth.
     >> >
     >> >     On 26/03/2021 04:49, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
     >> >      > I’m not clear on why I should send a message of support
     for RMS.
     >> >      >
     >> >      > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 4:57 PM Ali Reza Hayati
     >> >     <[14]hayati@riseup.net <mailto:[15]hayati@riseup.net>
     >> >      > <mailto:[16]hayati@riseup.net
     <mailto:[17]hayati@riseup.net>>> wrote:
     >> >      >
     >> >      >     People,
     >> >      >
     >> >      >     FSF board has received lots of messages today and
     there's no
     >> >     need to
     >> >      >     add
     >> >      >     to the pile. Please send your support for RMS to
     [18]info@fsf.org
     >> >     <mailto:[19]info@fsf.org>
     >> >      >     <mailto:[20]info@fsf.org <mailto:[21]info@fsf.org>>
     and ask
     >> >      >     them to resist pressures and stay with us.
     >> >      >
     >> >      >     Software libre is a matter of justice. If we can
     learn one
     >> >     thing from
     >> >      >     the whole movement is to keep our principals and
     fight for
     >> >     justice. FSF
     >> >      >     made a mistake back in 2019 and that was not to
     defend RMS
     >> >     against
     >> >      >     false
     >> >      >     accusations. Today, we can make that right by
     supporting a
     >> >     wonderful
     >> >      >     honorable man.
     >> >      >
     >> >      >     Show your support by sending messages to
     [22]info@fsf.org
     >> >     <mailto:[23]info@fsf.org>
     >> >      >     <mailto:[24]info@fsf.org <mailto:[25]info@fsf.org>>.
     Do it now, later
     >> >      >     may be late.
     >> >      >
     >> >      >     Best.
     >> >      >     --
     >> >      >     Ali Reza Hayati ([26]https://alirezahayati.com
     >> >     <[27]https://alirezahayati.com>
     <[28]https://alirezahayati.com
     >> >     <[29]https://alirezahayati.com>>)
     >> >      >     Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
     >> >      >     PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3
     C354
     >> >      >
     >> >      >     _______________________________________________
     >> >      >     libreplanet-discuss mailing list
     >> >      > [30]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     >> >     <mailto:[31]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
     >> >      >     <mailto:[32]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     >> >     <mailto:[33]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>>
     >> >      >
     >> >
     [34]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
     ss
     >> >
     <[35]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-disc
     uss>
     >> >      >
     >> >       <
     >>
     [36]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
     ss <
     >>
     [37]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
     ss>>
     >> >      >
     >> >
     >> >     --
     >> >     Ali Reza Hayati ([38]https://alirezahayati.com <
     >> [39]https://alirezahayati.com>)
     >> >     Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
     >> >     PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3 C354
     >> >
     >>
     >> --
     >> Ali Reza Hayati ([40]https://alirezahayati.com)
     >> Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
     >> PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3 C354
     >>
     >> _______________________________________________
     >> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
     >> [41]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     >>
     [42]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
     ss
     --
     Ali Reza Hayati ([43]https://alirezahayati.com)
     Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
     PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3

References

   1. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
   2. mailto:deb@eximiousproductions.com
   3. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
   4. https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
   5. https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
   6. http://gnu.org/
   7. http://gnu.org/
   8. https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
   9. https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
  10. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
  11. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
  12. mailto:info@fsf.org
  13. mailto:info@fsf.org
  14. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
  15. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
  16. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
  17. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
  18. mailto:info@fsf.org
  19. mailto:info@fsf.org
  20. mailto:info@fsf.org
  21. mailto:info@fsf.org
  22. mailto:info@fsf.org
  23. mailto:info@fsf.org
  24. mailto:info@fsf.org
  25. mailto:info@fsf.org
  26. https://alirezahayati.com/
  27. https://alirezahayati.com/
  28. https://alirezahayati.com/
  29. https://alirezahayati.com/
  30. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  31. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  32. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  33. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  34. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
  35. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
  36. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
  37. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
  38. https://alirezahayati.com/
  39. https://alirezahayati.com/
  40. https://alirezahayati.com/
  41. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  42. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
  43. https://alirezahayati.com/