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Re: Support RMS

From: Ali Reza Hayati
Subject: Re: Support RMS
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:40 +0430 
On 26/03/2021 18:19, Deb Nicholson wrote:


    An interesting thing about men who harass women is that they usually
    don't do it to men. Men who let the community know that they "don't
    believe in harassment" are the last people to find out it's happening,
    because no one feels safe telling them.
I believe in harassment and I do stand against any person who harass people, no matter they're women or men. But someone's feelings being hurt is not harassment.
For example, and only example, asking someone out or calling someone by wrong pronouns may hurt person's feelings but that's no harassment. Or, telling a person who is a woman that she's not as useful as some other person who is a man is not sexism.
Again, I'm not accusing you of lying, I just don't know the whole story so I can't make decision.
Since 2019, I've seen stories and articles that accuse RMS of harassment and assault which when I read carefully, I see only misunderstandings.
What is happening now, specially that so-called open letter is based on misunderstandings and some lies, not truth. I oppose that. 

Again, sorry for your experience.

    Hundreds of people have been driven away for free software for many,
    many years. Women have stories of his behavior going back to MIT. A few
    of those women are still in tech and could've been contributing to free
    software for the last 30 years. We lose women and people who won't
    stand for the harassment of women all the time.
This may be a political issue. I stand with women who are harassed, but I don't believe all women. I believe proof, not words. I don't accuse anybody of lying, I only can't stand somewhere when I'm not presented with any proof. 


    I'm sorry that you are unwilling to believe the women who have worked
    closely with RMS in the FSF office or on the GNU project. Or the women
    he has interacted with at tech conferences or sci-fi conferences. Or
    the women he has mistreated at MIT.
    I hope that you will consider that all of us would rather be doing
    something else with our time and the only reason to speak up is because
    we care about the future of free software.
    Best,
    Deb
I'm willing to believe any proof, so far, there haven't been any proof. Sorry you see me like this, I just can't decide where to stand without being presented by any proof. I understand that may hurt people, but I'm not willing to hurt others because I heard stories. 



      On March 26, 2021 1:18:13 PM UTC, Deb Nicholson
      <[2]deb@eximiousproductions.com> wrote:
      >Hi,
      >I'm a former FSF staff person and a former GNU maintainer who has
      left most
      >of the FSF & GNU mailing lists that I was on because of the
      extremely
      >toxic, harassment-filled environments on those lists. I stayed on
      the
      >LibrePlanet list because it's usually ok and I appreciate seeing
      the
      >occasional campaign messages and actions to take in support of free
      >software.
      >
      >RMS inspires a toxic, sexist and unrepentant culture. I'm one of
      the people
      >who has asked him -- many times -- to take a strong stance against
      sexism
      >in GNU, to stop treating women as second-class citizens, and to
      re-consider
      >his utterly clueless and disrespectful treatment of transgender
      people in
      >our communities.
      >
      >I want free software to win. I want everyone to be able to choose
      free
      >software for everything. There is no way for free software to win
      if
      >hundreds of previously interested people are leaving after they get
      sick of
      >the hateful, sexist and intolerant parts of our communities. People
      take
      >their cue from RMS and he has demonstrated over and over again that
      he is
      >not interested in removing intolerance. If we want a movement that
      grows,
      >instead of a quirky and toxic private club, then RMS shouldn't
      lead.
      >
      >Sincerely,
      >Deb Nicholson
      >
      >On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 8:31 AM Ali Reza Hayati
      <[3]hayati@riseup.net> wrote:
      >
      >> Hello Danny.
      >>
      >> I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt but I don't see anything
      wrong
      >> here. Dark humor is everywhere and many people like it. I've seen
      gay
      >> people liking dark humor about gays for example. As I said, after
      all,
      >> that's just jokes and humor.
      >>
      >> About being offended, again that's not a problem with RMS. Maybe
      he
      >> hasn't be nice to you or people you know but if you want a nice
      person
      >> to lead a foundation, you may need a kid, not a grown up person.
      Every
      >> person may upset you or others in some way. I've upset many
      people in my
      >> life without any intention, to that I apologize to them.
      >>
      >> If you believe RMS is not a good person, that's your opinion and
      >> respectable. If you don't think RMS is a good leader, that's
      again
      >> respectable and may even be a fair point if presented well.
      >>
      >> However, that's not where RMS opposers stand today. What you've
      signed
      >> is based on false accusations and lies. When it comes to
      defending
      >> truth, that statement/letter is completely false.
      >>
      >> I still urge people to support RMS in this matter because
      defending
      >> truth is important.
      >>
      >> Again, I'm sorry that your feelings have been hurt but that's
      just your
      >> personal conflict/disappointment.
      >>
      >> On 26/03/2021 09:06, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
      >> > I am having a difficult time right now. This person Georgia
      shares
      >> > several years of experience working at FSF and directly with
      RMS. Ali,
      >> > their testimony makes me think that maybe the free software
      movement
      >> > needs to move beyond RMS. Here are their words, copied from
      >> > [4]https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
      >> >
      <[5]https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232>:
      >> > “I worked at the FSF from 2015-2018 & was shop steward for a
      while. I
      >> > recall having a months (MONTHS) long conversation with ED John
      Sullivan
      >> > about why racist & sexist 'hacker humor' from the 90s needed to
      be
      >> > removed from [6]gnu.org <[7]http://gnu.org>. rms didn't get why
      it was
      >> harmful.
      >> >
      >> > Also the abortion joke ('contributed' by rms) in a technical
      manual? He
      >> > threw a fit when it was removed, & the energy many people (who
      respected
      >> > him!!) put in to attempting to educate him in why that wasn't
      cool.
      >> >
      >> > The thing that randos who have never had to actually work with
      rms don't
      >> > understand is that MANY people who deeply respected him tried
      to help
      >> > him learn to not objectify women, shout over others at
      Libreplanet as if
      >> > it was his birthday party, stop shit like 'emacs virgins'
      >> >
      >> > Meanwhile that energy, utterly wasted, could've been spent
      advocating
      >> > for free to software and building the inclusive, impractical
      community
      >> > so many people WANT. Spent, instead, on a man's ego, over and
      over.
      >> >
      >> > This whole thing is incredibly depressing. The free software
      community
      >> > is largely full of interesting, rad people - I got to work with
      a bunch
      >> > of people I like & respect & feel inspired by, organizing
      Libreplanet
      >> > was my job & introduced me to amazing people from across the
      world
      >> >
      >> > free software has the ability to do so much good, but there's
      an ugly
      >> > cult of personality around rms, & the fact that he faced
      consequences
      >> > for his creepy Epdtein-adjacent comments and not the decades of
      shitty
      >> > behavior towards women is infuriating & excuses his return
      >> >
      >> > It's easy for people to dismiss shitty words, & because we
      don't focus
      >> > on shitty actions (& actions are easily dismissed by assholes
      sealioning
      >> > for 'evidence' - bc "I saw it/experienced it" is NEVER enough)
      it's
      >> > possible for a floundering FSF to 'uncancel' rms now. DON'T LET
      THEM
      >> >
      >> > My github account was, uh, dusty, to say the least, but I made
      a pull
      >> > request in order to sign on to this letter.
      >> > [8]https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
      <[9]https://rms-open-letter.github.io/>
      >> >
      >> > One final thing: do not shit on FSF staff about this. They
      didn't ask
      >> > for this, they weren't notified in advance of rms' apparently
      impromptu
      >> > announcement, they labor for the organization and for the
      community
      >> > every day. Put pressure on the board and the executive
      director.”
      >> >
      >> > The letter is signed by 40 organizations and over 500
      individuals,
      >> > including dozens of former FSF staff and board members.
      >> >
      >> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 6:04 PM Ali Reza Hayati
      <[10]hayati@riseup.net
      >> > <mailto:[11]hayati@riseup.net>> wrote:
      >> >
      >> >     Recently, RMS announced that he's back on FSF board of
      directors.
      >> Now,
      >> >     some organizations and people are attacking FSF and RMS and
      are
      >> asking
      >> >     them to resign.
      >> >
      >> >     Since the accusations are false, we're asking FSF to resist
      this
      >> >     pressure and continue work for the good of the software
      libre
      >> movement.
      >> >
      >> >     Sending message to [12]info@fsf.org
      <mailto:[13]info@fsf.org> is a way of
      >> >     showing your support. They
      >> >     are acting like mobs and bullies, we should not step down
      from our
      >> >     principals, which are fighting for justice and truth.
      >> >
      >> >     On 26/03/2021 04:49, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
      >> >      > I’m not clear on why I should send a message of support
      for RMS.
      >> >      >
      >> >      > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 4:57 PM Ali Reza Hayati
      >> >     <[14]hayati@riseup.net <mailto:[15]hayati@riseup.net>
      >> >      > <mailto:[16]hayati@riseup.net
      <mailto:[17]hayati@riseup.net>>> wrote:
      >> >      >
      >> >      >     People,
      >> >      >
      >> >      >     FSF board has received lots of messages today and
      there's no
      >> >     need to
      >> >      >     add
      >> >      >     to the pile. Please send your support for RMS to
      [18]info@fsf.org
      >> >     <mailto:[19]info@fsf.org>
      >> >      >     <mailto:[20]info@fsf.org <mailto:[21]info@fsf.org>>
      and ask
      >> >      >     them to resist pressures and stay with us.
      >> >      >
      >> >      >     Software libre is a matter of justice. If we can
      learn one
      >> >     thing from
      >> >      >     the whole movement is to keep our principals and
      fight for
      >> >     justice. FSF
      >> >      >     made a mistake back in 2019 and that was not to
      defend RMS
      >> >     against
      >> >      >     false
      >> >      >     accusations. Today, we can make that right by
      supporting a
      >> >     wonderful
      >> >      >     honorable man.
      >> >      >
      >> >      >     Show your support by sending messages to
      [22]info@fsf.org
      >> >     <mailto:[23]info@fsf.org>
      >> >      >     <mailto:[24]info@fsf.org <mailto:[25]info@fsf.org>>.
      Do it now, later
      >> >      >     may be late.
      >> >      >
      >> >      >     Best.
      >> >      >     --
      >> >      >     Ali Reza Hayati ([26]https://alirezahayati.com
      >> >     <[27]https://alirezahayati.com>
      <[28]https://alirezahayati.com
      >> >     <[29]https://alirezahayati.com>>)
      >> >      >     Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
      >> >      >     PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3
      C354
      >> >      >
      >> >      >     _______________________________________________
      >> >      >     libreplanet-discuss mailing list
      >> >      > [30]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
      >> >     <mailto:[31]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
      >> >      >     <mailto:[32]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
      >> >     <mailto:[33]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>>
      >> >      >
      >> >
      [34]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
      ss
      >> >
      <[35]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-disc
      uss>
      >> >      >
      >> >       <
      >>
      [36]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
      ss <
      >>
      [37]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
      ss>>
      >> >      >
      >> >
      >> >     --
      >> >     Ali Reza Hayati ([38]https://alirezahayati.com <
      >> [39]https://alirezahayati.com>)
      >> >     Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
      >> >     PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3 C354
      >> >
      >>
      >> --
      >> Ali Reza Hayati ([40]https://alirezahayati.com)
      >> Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
      >> PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3 C354
      >>
      >> _______________________________________________
      >> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
      >> [41]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
      >>
      [42]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
      ss
      --
      Ali Reza Hayati ([43]https://alirezahayati.com)
      Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
      PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3

References

    1. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
    2. mailto:deb@eximiousproductions.com
    3. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
    4. https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
    5. https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
    6. http://gnu.org/
    7. http://gnu.org/
    8. https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
    9. https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
   10. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
   11. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
   12. mailto:info@fsf.org
   13. mailto:info@fsf.org
   14. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
   15. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
   16. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
   17. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
   18. mailto:info@fsf.org
   19. mailto:info@fsf.org
   20. mailto:info@fsf.org
   21. mailto:info@fsf.org
   22. mailto:info@fsf.org
   23. mailto:info@fsf.org
   24. mailto:info@fsf.org
   25. mailto:info@fsf.org
   26. https://alirezahayati.com/
   27. https://alirezahayati.com/
   28. https://alirezahayati.com/
   29. https://alirezahayati.com/
   30. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   31. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   32. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   33. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   34. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
   35. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
   36. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
   37. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
   38. https://alirezahayati.com/
   39. https://alirezahayati.com/
   40. https://alirezahayati.com/
   41. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   42. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
   43. https://alirezahayati.com/


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--
Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com)
Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3 C354

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