Re: Support RMS

[Aaron Wolf]

Thomas, I respect many of the things you have said, and I also think we
should all be hesitant to string this on and on and on. However, I do
not support your proposition that people just leave or that the threads
are nothing but absurdity. For any movement to be strong, it has to be
capable of grappling with difficult controversy and not just pushing it
away.

The RMS critics themselves want RMS gone because they too share your
wish to just make uncomfortable things just stop. But they don't. We
don't resolve this by artificially marking the conversation as done or
won't-fix or resolved before it actually is.

Perhaps we could propose alternative ways to go forward such as using
IRC (which doesn't pollute the email list), replying privately more
often, and indeed letting things go when there's nothing constructive to
say.

But we better use this moment to continue to improve how we communicate
if we are to come out of this stronger instead of weaker. IMO, the best
direction is neither just stop discussion nor is it to just continue
indefinitely. Although a pause for a while might well be good, as might
taking things to other spaces.

On 2021-04-16 2:49 p.m., Thomas Lord wrote:
> I may have attributed the foot smell comment to the wrong
> person.  Sorry, if so.
> 
> Whoever said it, these threads have gone beyond absurd, and beyond
> even any pretense of basic decency, nevermind seriously
> minded activism.
> 
> Will people please move on from these topics, and those who
> aren't satisfied, please just exercise your freedom not to
> associate with the FSF.
> 
> There is a global pandemic.  There is a global climate emergency.
> Both of those are areas where software freedom can help
> quite a bit.   There is a big crisis in the capitalist markets
> around mass surveillance, centralized (dis-)services, and so on.
> These are real crises for software freedom.   There is so much our
> already existing stock of software can do that people aren't
> using it for - and this too is a crisis/opportunity for software
> freedom.   There is a question of how to have libre planet when
> air travel is ecologically insane and so forth -- that's another
> relevant topic to talk about.
> 
> Stop with the trolling about RMS, and trolling is about what it has
> boiled down to at this point.
> 
> -t
> 
> 
> 
> On 2021-04-16 14:04, Thomas Lord wrote:
>>> * Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> [2021-04-16 08:21]:
>>> "(I was not close enough to smell his feet, however)"
>>
>>
>> Please get off this list.   There is no place for such infintile
>> rudeness.
>>
>>
>> -t
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2021-04-15 23:22, Jean Louis wrote:
>>> * Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> [2021-04-16 08:21]:
>>>> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:04 PM Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > * Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> [2021-04-16 07:44]:
>>>> > > Unfortunately, but unsurprisingly, the recording of the talk
>>>> cuts off
>>>> > > before RMS started yelling angrily.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t know where it is. Sorry, Jean! I can tell you RMS was
>>>> sitting in
>>>> the back-left of room 123 of the MIT Stata Center, wearing a green
>>>> collard
>>>> shirt, black pants, and no shoes or sandals or socks (I was not close
>>>> enough to smell his feet, however). I hope you’ll believe me all the
>>>> same.
>>>
>>> You bring up some ha ha cultural differences, but some people are more
>>> free and some not. Would he be Muslim in some kind of a Muslim dress,
>>> would you value him for the merits or how he looks like...
>>>
>>> I am grown up in a place where we like to be comfortable, so in the
>>> bus, I will often take my shoes off to be comfortable, but even if it
>>> does not smell somebody will not like it.
>>>
>>> Yesterday I was in park as in my role as investor and I am sitting on
>>> ground with a lovely student just as I would be doing it with 14
>>> years old, but somebody may not find it appropriate.
>>>
>>> I think those cultural things should not be subject of anything called
>>> "Planet" as if you truly want a planet, accept people how they are,
>>> and look for their merits, not personal choice of having sandals or
>>> not.
>>>
>>> Currently being located in Easter Africa, I can see many people
>>> walking barefoot, including in the rain, I see nice woman of about
>>> 22-25 walking barefoot on mud, I would do the same to join her. Before
>>> few days receptionist brings me food to my lodge room and I receive
>>> him naked and he does not mind.
>>>
>>> Further, that somebody does not have sandals and is sitting behind is
>>> nothing that may be compared to what you say unwelcoming.
>>>
>>> What would be unwelcoming is when RMS would have no sandals and would
>>> be demanding that everybody entering the room should have no
>>> sandals.
>>>
>>> You see, me personally, not being same as you, I would not mind when
>>> people don't wear sandals, as I am planetary citizen, and I believe
>>> you can be the same. There are larger rooms and public spaces here in
>>> Uganda where you need to put your shoes outside before entering to
>>> keep the space cleaner, I do not say it is really objectively cleaner,
>>> but I am giving you example of planetary differences in human
>>> interactions or intermixed behavior.
>>>
>>> Your personal impression does not yet not even closely justify ability
>>> of RMS to speak for FSF, neither justify public shamings.
>>>
>>> What I would suggest to you Deb is to start traveling and learn what
>>> our planet really is.