Re: Support RMS

[Jean Louis]

* Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> [2021-04-16 11:08]:
> > Can you finally find which session was it:
> >
> > https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/collection/libreplanet-2018-videos-and-slides/
> >
> > > > What I would suggest to you Deb is to start traveling and learn what
> > > > our planet really is.
> >
> 
> I want to point out again how this comment comes across as
> presumptuous.

Of course, I make presumptuous comments, but you may observe that I
have asked you a lot of questions to make the assumption. Of course I
cannot know everything, especially for the reason that we are on
distance, and you don't explain details, or don't remember. I am not
technically capable to make absolutely correct statements, but I can
judge based on what you say. Explain yourself better. I said provide
the URL link. You then mention lack of sandals or whatever, but you
don't mention why... if I would be walking all day long like I do
sometimes 25 kilometers over 5-7 hills, I would maybe sit down on the
street what I did before few months, and do whatever is necessary to
help my body breath and relax. But that is not relevant to my ability
to take care for 20 people expecting that I solve their
salaries. Travel by vehicles was forbidden due to fascist COVID
measures. That is one example that I would like to see from your
side. But I don't, I cannot unless you tell me more details.

> > Now by saying people who are kind and capable leaders, do you wish to
> > imply that RMS is not kind and capable leader?
> 
> When it comes to interpersonal dealings, when it comes to FSF staff and
> event organizers trying to do their jobs effectively... Yes, that's the
> implication in a nutshell.

As you are not only one speaking of interpersonal dealings, as other
people have also spoken, I don't see and don't put much weight on that
statement. You may not like or like your boss, that is clear, those
who stay are fine and moving purposes forward. There is no company in
the world where all of the people will like at all times their
seniors. There is no way to achieve such perfectionism.

You are free to build your own organization and demonstrate yourself
as perfect person.

> > On majority of public speeches RMS appears kind and that he is
> > capable, there is result speaking for itself,
> 
> Dictators are known to very charismatic speeches, do they not?  :P

I did not say charismatic, I don't find it charismatic, I find it
professoric, to understand what RMS speaks, I have to follow with
attention, not emotion. I don't find public audiences of RMS
emotionally moved, they are intellectually moved rather, as they
listen and understand new data. RMS made simple presentations that
will not draw attention to something else. Few jokes on the end and
donation things. Nothing much really. No charisma that I see.

>From Wordnet:

* Overview of noun charisma

The noun charisma has 1 sense (first 1 from tagged texts)
1. (1) charisma, personal appeal, personal magnetism -- (a personal
attractiveness or interestingness that enables you to influence
others)

> GNU is entirely besides the point. But, for an example that's somewhat of
> an inverse of RMS and GNU, Alfred Nobel invented dynamite and was so
> appalled that his creation become weaponized as a means of death and
> destruction, he worked the rest of his life to make up for it.

As in mining, we use dynamite to blast ores which you will use
then back in your cars to move around. I see invention of dynamite as
free software, it is not bad necessarily by itself, but some people
may use it for bad purposes.

> It seems the diehard defenders of dear leader will say and do and
> point to anything -- including GNU or favorite lectures or whatever
> -- as support for their position that people raising concerns should
> simply shut up and not do so at all.

Maybe yes, you should maybe stay calm when somebody speaks and help,
or otherwise, if you don't want to help, do something else.

> > we would not have Linux kernel without RMS
> 
> Well, fortunately we now have GNU and the Linux kernel, so maybe it's time
> to address concerns and grievances with RMS and FSF, and move our movement
> forward?

Why don't you address your personal issues with RMS if you have some?

Is anybody blocking you?

Why you bring your personal issues here on public mailing list?

Though I did not see any personal issue from your side, beside that
angrily speaking behind on somebody, even that I do not see as
personal. It is your viepoint. Dissecting every single reaction, for
heaven's sake that is waste of time.

> > That RMS is not capable is a point that accusers wish to make, and
> > that is the lie. But they cannot make it objectively.
> 
> Capable of what, speeches and GNU? That's not the point. We're talking
> about leadership and collaborating in an organization and a
> movement.

I look at results, whatever he was doing, there are huge planetary
results impacting so many people, educating and helping people
understand freedom.

What you are looking at are his approaches to women, maybe you have
issues there, maybe sandals, maybe interruption of speech. Please.

Those are uncomparable things.

> Jean, by your logic ... RMS is capable of creating GNU. But you seem to
> appreciate that there are a great many people with commitment and integrity
> and capabilities of their own who do **not** find it functional to be in a
> community that denies any possibility of dysfunction.

Who is disallowing you to be in community? What you are actually
saying, is that you are not at all close to RMS like right now, but
you would like to be close to RMS, but without RMS. WTF!

Nobody is telling you should not be part of community, so be.

Who is, is anybody forcing you to interact with people you don't like
to interact? Don't interact, get your own life.

Nobody is forsing you anything, but then please be kind and stop
imposing your view on others as not everybody shares your views.

Yes, fine, that public character assassination letters was signed by
thousand, but also support RMS letter was signed
https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ by several more thousands.

Not everybody supports such vague statements.

And despite those accusations have been proven factually wrong here
https://stallmansupport.org/ not a single one of the accusers excused
themselves and said sorry.

I would not like such people leading any organization.

We already discussed RMS being able to recognize or grasp things and
say sorry.

When did you say sorry for whatever nonsense? You as accusers just
find it right to behave how you wish and want, accuse others of doing
the same pattern of behavior you have.

> But a few years ago I brought up the question of free software and
> weapons of war. People on a list said, "Hey, get politics out of
> free software! All that matters are the four freedoms!!!!"

Exactly. As if you touch that, you touch Freedom 0 - to use the
software how one wish and wants.

Which also implies you never accepted Freedom 0 and this is not place
to present your ideas on changing Freedom 0.

> I believe that style of reactionary stance appears far too often in the
> free software community for it to gain more members, to grow as a movement.
> 
> And that is why I was initially drawn to Libre Planet and FSF.

Welcome, not everything is how you wish and want, research more.


-- 
Jean

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