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Re: Support RMS
From: |
Danny Spitzberg |
Subject: |
Re: Support RMS |
Date: |
Fri, 16 Apr 2021 01:07:57 -0700 |
On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 12:29 AM Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> wrote:
* Danny Spitzberg <[1]stationaery@gmail.com> [2021-04-16 09:48]:
> > You bring up some ha ha cultural differences, but some people
are more
> > free and some not.
>
> Jean, I mention the bare feet to suggest that my recollection of
the story
> is accurate, and the point about smell was to add specificity to
how close
> I was sitting. You assume too much.
How do I who read your story, can know that you are proving to
yourself, not to readers, how it is accurate. To prove to readers,
please find some other person who remembers bare feet, than also
that
angrily talking, that we can understand objectively what was said
and
why.
Can you finally find which session was it:
[2]https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/collection/libreplane
t-2018-videos-and-slides/
> > What I would suggest to you Deb is to start traveling and learn
what
> > our planet really is.
I want to point out again how this comment comes across as
presumptuous.
>
> I’ve traveled extensively, thank you. It has indeed been
revealing. I
> especially appreciate visiting with people who are kind and
capable
> leaders, who practice nonviolence and take a cooperative approach.
Also,
> it’s nice when people take a stance against free software being
used by
> armed forces and militaries... but that’s another topic.
You have to travel to cultures not similar to yours, not like
Western-style of cultures, try Greece, Sicily, Turkey, visit people
in
their homes, eat with them, understand differences.
And indeed I have, for many years, but thank you very much!
Now by saying people who are kind and capable leaders, do you wish
to
imply that RMS is not kind and capable leader?
When it comes to interpersonal dealings, when it comes to FSF staff and
event organizers trying to do their jobs effectively... Yes, that's the
implication in a nutshell.
On majority of public speeches RMS appears kind and that he is
capable, there is result speaking for itself,
Dictators are known to very charismatic speeches, do they not? :P
we would not have GNU
without RMS,
GNU is entirely besides the point. But, for an example that's somewhat
of an inverse of RMS and GNU, Alfred Nobel invented dynamite and was so
appalled that his creation become weaponized as a means of death and
destruction, he worked the rest of his life to make up for it. It seems
the diehard defenders of dear leader will say and do and point to
anything -- including GNU or favorite lectures or whatever -- as
support for their position that people raising concerns should simply
shut up and not do so at all.
we would not have Linux kernel without RMS
Well, fortunately we now have GNU and the Linux kernel, so maybe it's
time to address concerns and grievances with RMS and FSF, and move our
movement forward?
speaking on
University in Helsinki where Linus decided to license it under GPL,
as
it was proprietary in the first place; there would be neither FSF
neither the Libreplanet. You can I hope, realize, how much is that
all
caused by RMS and his delegation of responsibilities to other
people.
That RMS is capable is out of question for me, you can speak about
behavior, but there is no way to convince those having analytical
skills that RMS is not capable.
That RMS is not capable is a point that accusers wish to make, and
that is the lie. But they cannot make it objectively.
Capable of what, speeches and GNU? That's not the point. We're talking
about leadership and collaborating in an organization and a movement.
Jean, by your logic ... RMS is capable of creating GNU. But you seem to
appreciate that there are a great many people with commitment and
integrity and capabilities of their own who do **not** find it
functional to be in a community that denies any possibility of
dysfunction.
Now in your stories of seeing leaders kind and capable, you did not
tell us how much of first hand experience you have with those
leaders
in other countries as compared to RMS.
As I know many leaders who are kind in public, but they are tigers
in
the activities behind, and not everybody like to work with
tigers. Leaders accomplish so much more than other people, they
focus
and sacrifice much more than common people. They may behave quite
inadequate to many around them who are by mistake with them.
I say by mistake, because leaders technically, cannot work with
everybody. They have to choose those who understand their purposes
fully and can equally act with them. It is an information
warfare.
Why generals have their officers to work with them? Why generals
don't
interact directly with soldiers in hierarchy? This is because there
are transitions between people, generals can possibly speak to
officers around them, but cannot speak to soldiers, as their
viewpoints cannot be easily explained, they have to be dissected.
Those who work with RMS and fail to work truly on purpose are by
mistake there, they have to be on some other place. Either do the
work
properly, or resign and do something else.
> Also, it’s nice when people take a stance against free software
> being used by armed forces and militaries... but that’s another
> topic.
It is not, it is quite good place for a topic.
And I find it good that
you disclose this. This is type of disagreements that I have
mentioned
previously today where personal disagreements are influencing
judgments about legal behavior of somebody else, this case RMS.
IMHO, your personal political issues you have not expressed enough,
and you have disagreements, but instead of expressing your personal
issues, you attack the other person, in this case RMS. This may be
not
conscious on your part. I may be wrong, but that is what impression
I
get now.
Maybe you don't see it, but you are on Libreplanet for what? Are you
for free software or not? If you are, then why would be nice to take
a
stance against free software being used in armed forces and
militaries? It is not other topic, it is very related. Maybe you
never
understood what is free software.
It may be used to kill somebody, that is why it is free software. It
may be used to run the machines that penetrate women vagina or
automatically ejaculate penises, it may be used to open and close
doors of slaves' cages trafficked for sex, it may be used to
automate
vehicles that deliver dead bodies into mass graves.
While those are mostly immoral inhumane issues (except the machine)
that is what free software is for.
If you advocate in FSF or on this mailing list that it would be nice
to forbid software to be used in some what you personally think
immoral situations, that is where larger disagreement comes, those
are
larger way larger issues than what you said about RMS.
We can't eat or drink free software, so I suppose there has to come a
point where other matters enter into the equation, yes?
But a few years ago I brought up the question of free software and
weapons of war. People on a list said, "Hey, get politics out of free
software! All that matters are the four freedoms!!!!"
I believe that style of reactionary stance appears far too often in the
free software community for it to gain more members, to grow as a
movement.
And that is why I was initially drawn to Libre Planet and FSF.
--
Jean
Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
[3]https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman
[4]https://stallmansupport.org/
[5]https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
References
1. mailto:stationaery@gmail.com
2.
https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/collection/libreplanet-2018-videos-and-slides/
3. https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
4. https://stallmansupport.org/
5. https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
- Re: Support RMS, (continued)
- Re: Support RMS, Adrienne G. Thompson, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Danny Spitzberg, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Thomas Lord, 2021/04/16
- Message not available
- Re: Support RMS, Adrienne G. Thompson, 2021/04/18
- Re: Support RMS, Danny Spitzberg, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Thomas Lord, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Jean Louis, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS,
Danny Spitzberg <=
- Re: Support RMS, Jean Louis, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Danny Spitzberg, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Deb Nicholson, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Jean Louis, 2021/04/16
- Message not available
- Re: Support RMS, Jean Louis, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Jean Louis, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Danny Spitzberg, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Danny Spitzberg, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS, Lusin, 2021/04/16
- Re: Support RMS> to Deb, all, gregor, 2021/04/15