Re: Support RMS> to Deb, all

[quiliro]

Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 9:34 PM <quiliro@riseup.net> wrote:
>
>  Danny Spitzberg <stationaery@gmail.com> writes:
>
>  > A great deal of assertions are flying around this list.
>  >
>  > People are selectively ignoring dozens of personal stories and
>  > experiences, apparently assuming it is all a massive conspiracy that
>  > has been boiling for decades. That seems to prevent productive
>  > communication, and it adds to an atmosphere that prevents happy
>  > hacking.
>
>  No. People just feel that some persons should not control others'
>  decisions by way of harrassment. 
>
>  I did not receive the below email. It is not in my spam directory
>  either. I will respond to it inline.
>
>  > On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 6:13 PM <quiliro@riseup.net> wrote:
>  >
>  > Deb Nicholson <deb@eximiousproductions.com> writes:
>  >
>  > > Gregor could've saved us all a ton of time and just said that he doesn't
>  > > care if women, or really anyone who would rather not be bullied,
>  > > participates in free software.
>  >
>  > I feel you are bullying us, Deb. 
>  >
>  > In what way do you feel bullied? 
>
>  You keep insisting in imposing your views. They are clear. Some people
>  agree and others don't. Insisting gets you nowhere. It is firing up
>  the environment. It is making people get divided. If that is what you
>  wanted, congratulations because you have achieved it. It shows who is
>  who in the end.
>
>  You also keep accusing RMS without hard proof.
>
> What counts as "hard proof," a written testimony signed by a lawyer or notary 
> public?

Hard proof for asking him to step down would be that those people he has
scared from activism would promote freedom and not open source.

Another hard proof would be that they use free software in their
machines and not just pieces of free software.

Another hard proof would be that they resist corporations more than RMS.

Another hard proof would be that they would have rejected as much money
as him from corporations, instead of working for them.

Another hard proof would be that they work for consensus in the
community, not division (like corporations want).

I can go on with the list indefinitely.  But I am getting tired of
distracting my work on HyperbolaBSD.  Many hackers are being recruited
and guided for learning to write the new kernel.

> More importantly: why do you doubt what Deb says, and what so many other 
> women and femme individuals say? Do you think Deb stands to benefit 
> financially? (See below for a point
> about the original "Witch Trials")
>
>  Those are the ways I have felt bullied by you because I am part of the
>  community and because I have studied the facts of the case. I suggest
>  you take the legal route, if you really have a case against FSF or
>  against RMS. Stop the harrassment to the community and stop dividing
>  the movement.
>
> It saddens me that you continue to attempt to suppress these
> conversations, instead of offering anything constructive -- as so many
> others have done, with grace. Like Aaron and Thomas and so on. (Thank
> you all for that!)

I am not responsible for your happiness.  I have offered solutions.  But
you will not take them.  Harrassment continues.

>  If you really want to help the free software movement, look for common
>  objectives, not cancelling people. Work with what you can of RMS,
>  instead of focusing on what he is not able to provide for your
>  objectives. If you have no common objectives, work with others instead
>  of continuing this divisive attitude.
>
>  > Should I abandon my values and stop promoting freedom?
>  >
>  > My understanding is that Deb expilained an important pattern of
>  > responses by many people who have the right to their psychological and
>  > personal safety in community spaces. So this does strike me as
>  > somewhat ironic.
>
>  It is ok to express those feelings. It is not ok to harrass by
>  insistence on something that she knows will not be accepted for whatever
>  reason and making us look gloomy. It is not ok pressing others to
>  persecute people for their thoughts and expressions.
>
> These comments are clearly being shared in the interest of improving
> the community. It's a shame you can't see that. But I can say
> personally that I've benefited immensely from seeing these narratives
> emerge, and the vision has been inspiring. We can treat people better
> -- up to a point.

Attacks are never in the benefit of the community.  They divide it and
benefit corporations.

>  We are not OK with a witch hunt. This was in the way it used to be in
>  Massachusets. But witch hunts are a thing of the past ...
>
> Do you know the actual history of witch hunts? They started because
> men who owned land and were in power got "called out" by women for
> adultery, philandering, and illicit business dealings. They talked
> amongst themselves, as women tend to in communities, and word got
> out. And as a way of seeking retribution, these same men began rumors
> that the women were evil and needed to be killed, by fire. And the
> rest you probably know.

Interesting story.  There are male witches and female witches.  The
gender does not matter.  There is persecution for a hidden agenda.
Follow the money and the beneficiaries, so you can find the hidden
agenda.

I do not want to continue this conversation because I will be very busy
with HyperbolaBSD.  I ask you do not talk about me while I cannot defend
myself or that you attack the Hyperbola project because of me.