Re: Support RMS> to Deb, all

[Danny Spitzberg]

   On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 9:34 PM <[1]quiliro@riseup.net> wrote:

     Danny Spitzberg <[2]stationaery@gmail.com> writes:
     > A great deal of assertions are flying around this list.
     >
     > People are selectively ignoring dozens of personal stories and
     > experiences, apparently assuming it is all a massive conspiracy
     that
     > has been boiling for decades. That seems to prevent productive
     > communication, and it adds to an atmosphere that prevents happy
     > hacking.
     No.  People just feel that some persons should not control others'
     decisions by way of harrassment.
     I did not receive the below email.  It is not in my spam directory
     either.  I will respond to it inline.
     > On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 6:13 PM <[3]quiliro@riseup.net> wrote:
     >
     >  Deb Nicholson <[4]deb@eximiousproductions.com> writes:
     >
     >  > Gregor could've saved us all a ton of time and just said that
     he doesn't
     >  > care if women, or really anyone who would rather not be
     bullied,
     >  > participates in free software.
     >
     >  I feel you are bullying us, Deb.
     >
     > In what way do you feel bullied?
     You keep insisting in imposing your views.  They are clear.  Some
     people
     agree and others don't.  Insisting gets you nowhere.  It is firing
     up
     the environment.  It is making people get divided.  If that is what
     you
     wanted, congratulations because you have achieved it.  It shows who
     is
     who in the end.
     You also keep accusing RMS without hard proof.

   What counts as "hard proof," a written testimony signed by a lawyer or
   notary public?
   More importantly: why do you doubt what Deb says, and what so many
   other women and femme individuals say? Do you think Deb stands to
   benefit financially? (See below for a point about the original "Witch
   Trials")

     Those are the ways I have felt bullied by you because I am part of
     the
     community and because I have studied the facts of the case.  I
     suggest
     you take the legal route, if you really have a case against FSF or
     against RMS.  Stop the harrassment to the community and stop
     dividing
     the movement.

   It saddens me that you continue to attempt to suppress these
   conversations, instead of offering anything constructive -- as so many
   others have done, with grace. Like Aaron and Thomas and so on. (Thank
   you all for that!)

     If you really want to help the free software movement, look for
     common
     objectives, not cancelling people.  Work with what you can of RMS,
     instead of focusing on what he is not able to provide for your
     objectives.  If you have no common objectives, work with others
     instead
     of continuing this divisive attitude.
     >  Should I abandon my values and stop promoting freedom?
     >
     > My understanding is that Deb expilained an important pattern of
     > responses by many people who have the right to their psychological
     and
     > personal safety in community spaces. So this does strike me as
     > somewhat ironic.
     It is ok to express those feelings.  It is not ok to harrass by
     insistence on something that she knows will not be accepted for
     whatever
     reason and making us look gloomy.  It is not ok pressing others to
     persecute people for their thoughts and expressions.

   These comments are clearly being shared in the interest of improving
   the community. It's a shame you can't see that. But I can say
   personally that I've benefited immensely from seeing these narratives
   emerge, and the vision has been inspiring. We can treat people better
   -- up to a point.

     We are not OK with a witch hunt.  This was in the way it used to be
     in
     Massachusets.  But witch hunts are a thing of the past ...

   Do you know the actual history of witch hunts? They started because men
   who owned land and were in power got "called out" by women for
   adultery, philandering, and illicit business dealings. They talked
   amongst themselves, as women tend to in communities, and word got out.
   And as a way of seeking retribution, these same men began rumors that
   the women were evil and needed to be killed, by fire. And the rest you
   probably know.

References

   1. mailto:quiliro@riseup.net
   2. mailto:stationaery@gmail.com
   3. mailto:quiliro@riseup.net
   4. mailto:deb@eximiousproductions.com