Hi,
I'm a former FSF staff person and a former GNU maintainer who
has left most
of the FSF & GNU mailing lists that I was on because of the
extremely
toxic, harassment-filled environments on those lists. I stayed
on the
LibrePlanet list because it's usually ok and I appreciate seeing
the
occasional campaign messages and actions to take in support of
free
software.
RMS inspires a toxic, sexist and unrepentant culture. I'm one of
the people
who has asked him -- many times -- to take a strong stance
against sexism
in GNU, to stop treating women as second-class citizens, and to
re-consider
his utterly clueless and disrespectful treatment of transgender
people in
our communities.
I want free software to win. I want everyone to be able to
choose free
software for everything. There is no way for free software to
win if
hundreds of previously interested people are leaving after they
get sick of
the hateful, sexist and intolerant parts of our
communities. People take
their cue from RMS and he has demonstrated over and over again
that he is
not interested in removing intolerance. If we want a movement
that grows,
instead of a quirky and toxic private club, then RMS shouldn't
lead.
Sincerely,
Deb Nicholson
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 8:31 AM Ali Reza Hayati
<hayati@riseup.net> wrote:
Hello Danny.
I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt but I don't see anything
wrong
here. Dark humor is everywhere and many people like it. I've
seen gay
people liking dark humor about gays for example. As I said,
after all,
that's just jokes and humor.
About being offended, again that's not a problem with
RMS. Maybe he
hasn't be nice to you or people you know but if you want a nice
person
to lead a foundation, you may need a kid, not a grown up
person. Every
person may upset you or others in some way. I've upset many
people in my
life without any intention, to that I apologize to them.
If you believe RMS is not a good person, that's your opinion
and
respectable. If you don't think RMS is a good leader, that's
again
respectable and may even be a fair point if presented well.
However, that's not where RMS opposers stand today. What you've
signed
is based on false accusations and lies. When it comes to
defending
truth, that statement/letter is completely false.
I still urge people to support RMS in this matter because
defending
truth is important.
Again, I'm sorry that your feelings have been hurt but that's
just your
personal conflict/disappointment.
On 26/03/2021 09:06, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
> I am having a difficult time right now. This person Georgia
> shares
> several years of experience working at FSF and directly with
> RMS. Ali,
> their testimony makes me think that maybe the free software
> movement
> needs to move beyond RMS. Here are their words, copied from
> https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
> <https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232>:
> “I worked at the FSF from 2015-2018 & was shop steward for a
> while. I
> recall having a months (MONTHS) long conversation with ED
> John Sullivan
> about why racist & sexist 'hacker humor' from the 90s needed
> to be
> removed from gnu.org <http://gnu.org>. rms didn't get why it
> was
harmful.
>
> Also the abortion joke ('contributed' by rms) in a technical
> manual? He
> threw a fit when it was removed, & the energy many people
> (who respected
> him!!) put in to attempting to educate him in why that wasn't
> cool.
>
> The thing that randos who have never had to actually work
> with rms don't
> understand is that MANY people who deeply respected him tried
> to help
> him learn to not objectify women, shout over others at
> Libreplanet as if
> it was his birthday party, stop shit like 'emacs virgins'
>
> Meanwhile that energy, utterly wasted, could've been spent
> advocating
> for free to software and building the inclusive, impractical
> community
> so many people WANT. Spent, instead, on a man's ego, over and
> over.
>
> This whole thing is incredibly depressing. The free software
> community
> is largely full of interesting, rad people - I got to work
> with a bunch
> of people I like & respect & feel inspired by, organizing
> Libreplanet
> was my job & introduced me to amazing people from across the
> world
>
> free software has the ability to do so much good, but there's
> an ugly
> cult of personality around rms, & the fact that he faced
> consequences
> for his creepy Epdtein-adjacent comments and not the decades
> of shitty
> behavior towards women is infuriating & excuses his return
>
> It's easy for people to dismiss shitty words, & because we
> don't focus
> on shitty actions (& actions are easily dismissed by assholes
> sealioning
> for 'evidence' - bc "I saw it/experienced it" is NEVER
> enough) it's
> possible for a floundering FSF to 'uncancel' rms now. DON'T
> LET THEM
>
> My github account was, uh, dusty, to say the least, but I
> made a pull
> request in order to sign on to this letter.
> https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
> <https://rms-open-letter.github.io/>
>
> One final thing: do not shit on FSF staff about this. They
> didn't ask
> for this, they weren't notified in advance of rms' apparently
> impromptu
> announcement, they labor for the organization and for the
> community
> every day. Put pressure on the board and the executive
> director.”
>
> The letter is signed by 40 organizations and over 500
> individuals,
> including dozens of former FSF staff and board members.
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 6:04 PM Ali Reza Hayati
> <hayati@riseup.net
> <mailto:hayati@riseup.net>> wrote:
>
> Recently, RMS announced that he's back on FSF board of
> directors.
Now,
> some organizations and people are attacking FSF and RMS
> and are
asking
> them to resign.
>
> Since the accusations are false, we're asking FSF to
> resist this
> pressure and continue work for the good of the software
> libre
movement.
>
> Sending message to info@fsf.org <mailto:info@fsf.org> is
> a way of
> showing your support. They
> are acting like mobs and bullies, we should not step down
> from our
> principals, which are fighting for justice and truth.
>
> On 26/03/2021 04:49, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
> > I’m not clear on why I should send a message of
> > support for RMS.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 4:57 PM Ali Reza Hayati
> <hayati@riseup.net <mailto:hayati@riseup.net>
> > <mailto:hayati@riseup.net <mailto:hayati@riseup.net>>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > People,
> >
> > FSF board has received lots of messages today and
> > there's no
> need to
> > add
> > to the pile. Please send your support for RMS to
> > info@fsf.org
> <mailto:info@fsf.org>
> > <mailto:info@fsf.org <mailto:info@fsf.org>> and
> > ask
> > them to resist pressures and stay with us.
> >
> > Software libre is a matter of justice. If we can
> > learn one
> thing from
> > the whole movement is to keep our principals and
> > fight for
> justice. FSF
> > made a mistake back in 2019 and that was not to
> > defend RMS
> against
> > false
> > accusations. Today, we can make that right by
> > supporting a
> wonderful
> > honorable man.
> >
> > Show your support by sending messages to
> > info@fsf.org
> <mailto:info@fsf.org>
> > <mailto:info@fsf.org <mailto:info@fsf.org>>. Do it
> > now, later
> > may be late.
> >
> > Best.
> > --
> > Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com
> <https://alirezahayati.com> <https://alirezahayati.com
> <https://alirezahayati.com>>)
> > Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
> > PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3
> > C354
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> <mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
> > <mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> <mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>>
> >
> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> <https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss>
> >
> <
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
<
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss>>
> >
>
> --
> Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com <
https://alirezahayati.com>)
> Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
> PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3 C354
>
--
Ali Reza Hayati (https://alirezahayati.com)
Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3 C354
_______________________________________________
libreplanet-discuss mailing list
libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Hi,
I'm a former FSF staff person and a former GNU maintainer who
has left
most of the FSF & GNU mailing lists that I was on because of
the
extremely toxic, harassment-filled environments on those
lists. I
stayed on the LibrePlanet list because it's usually ok and I
appreciate
seeing the occasional campaign messages and actions to take
in support
of free software.
RMS inspires a toxic, sexist and unrepentant culture. I'm one
of the
people who has asked him -- many times -- to take a strong
stance
against sexism in GNU, to stop treating women as second-class
citizens,
and to re-consider his utterly clueless and disrespectful
treatment of
transgender people in our communities.
I want free software to win. I want everyone to be able to
choose free
software for everything. There is no way for free software to
win if
hundreds of previously interested people are leaving after
they get
sick of the hateful, sexist and intolerant parts of our
communities.
People take their cue from RMS and he has demonstrated over
and over
again that he is not interested in removing intolerance. If
we want a
movement that grows, instead of a quirky and toxic private
club, then
RMS shouldn't lead.
Sincerely,
Deb Nicholson
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 8:31 AM Ali Reza Hayati
<[1]hayati@riseup.net>
wrote:
Hello Danny.
I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt but I don't see
anything wrong
here. Dark humor is everywhere and many people like
it. I've seen
gay
people liking dark humor about gays for example. As I said,
after
all,
that's just jokes and humor.
About being offended, again that's not a problem with
RMS. Maybe he
hasn't be nice to you or people you know but if you want a
nice
person
to lead a foundation, you may need a kid, not a grown up
person.
Every
person may upset you or others in some way. I've upset many
people
in my
life without any intention, to that I apologize to them.
If you believe RMS is not a good person, that's your
opinion and
respectable. If you don't think RMS is a good leader,
that's again
respectable and may even be a fair point if presented well.
However, that's not where RMS opposers stand today. What
you've
signed
is based on false accusations and lies. When it comes to
defending
truth, that statement/letter is completely false.
I still urge people to support RMS in this matter because
defending
truth is important.
Again, I'm sorry that your feelings have been hurt but
that's just
your
personal conflict/disappointment.
On 26/03/2021 09:06, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
> I am having a difficult time right now. This person
> Georgia shares
> several years of experience working at FSF and directly
> with RMS.
Ali,
> their testimony makes me think that maybe the free
> software
movement
> needs to move beyond RMS. Here are their words, copied
> from
> [2]https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
> <[3]https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232>:
> “I worked at the FSF from 2015-2018 & was shop steward
> for a
while. I
> recall having a months (MONTHS) long conversation with ED
> John
Sullivan
> about why racist & sexist 'hacker humor' from the 90s
> needed to be
> removed from [4]gnu.org <[5]http://gnu.org>. rms didn't
> get why it
was harmful.
>
> Also the abortion joke ('contributed' by rms) in a
> technical
manual? He
> threw a fit when it was removed, & the energy many people
> (who
respected
> him!!) put in to attempting to educate him in why that
> wasn't
cool.
>
> The thing that randos who have never had to actually work
> with rms
don't
> understand is that MANY people who deeply respected him
> tried to
help
> him learn to not objectify women, shout over others at
> Libreplanet
as if
> it was his birthday party, stop shit like 'emacs virgins'
>
> Meanwhile that energy, utterly wasted, could've been
> spent
advocating
> for free to software and building the inclusive,
> impractical
community
> so many people WANT. Spent, instead, on a man's ego, over
> and
over.
>
> This whole thing is incredibly depressing. The free
> software
community
> is largely full of interesting, rad people - I got to
> work with a
bunch
> of people I like & respect & feel inspired by, organizing
Libreplanet
> was my job & introduced me to amazing people from across
> the world
>
> free software has the ability to do so much good, but
> there's an
ugly
> cult of personality around rms, & the fact that he faced
consequences
> for his creepy Epdtein-adjacent comments and not the
> decades of
shitty
> behavior towards women is infuriating & excuses his
> return
>
> It's easy for people to dismiss shitty words, & because
> we don't
focus
> on shitty actions (& actions are easily dismissed by
> assholes
sealioning
> for 'evidence' - bc "I saw it/experienced it" is NEVER
> enough)
it's
> possible for a floundering FSF to 'uncancel' rms
> now. DON'T LET
THEM
>
> My github account was, uh, dusty, to say the least, but I
> made a
pull
> request in order to sign on to this letter.
> [6]https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
<[7]https://rms-open-letter.github.io/>
>
> One final thing: do not shit on FSF staff about
> this. They didn't
ask
> for this, they weren't notified in advance of rms'
> apparently
impromptu
> announcement, they labor for the organization and for the
community
> every day. Put pressure on the board and the executive
> director.”
>
> The letter is signed by 40 organizations and over 500
> individuals,
> including dozens of former FSF staff and board members.
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 6:04 PM Ali Reza Hayati
<[8]hayati@riseup.net
> <mailto:[9]hayati@riseup.net>> wrote:
>
> Recently, RMS announced that he's back on FSF board
> of
directors. Now,
> some organizations and people are attacking FSF and
> RMS and
are asking
> them to resign.
>
> Since the accusations are false, we're asking FSF to
> resist
this
> pressure and continue work for the good of the
> software libre
movement.
>
> Sending message to [10]info@fsf.org
> <mailto:[11]info@fsf.org>
is a way of
> showing your support. They
> are acting like mobs and bullies, we should not step
> down from
our
> principals, which are fighting for justice and truth.
>
> On 26/03/2021 04:49, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
> > I’m not clear on why I should send a message of
> > support for
RMS.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 4:57 PM Ali Reza Hayati
> <[12]hayati@riseup.net <mailto:[13]hayati@riseup.net>
> > <mailto:[14]hayati@riseup.net
<mailto:[15]hayati@riseup.net>>> wrote:
> >
> > People,
> >
> > FSF board has received lots of messages today
> > and
there's no
> need to
> > add
> > to the pile. Please send your support for RMS
> > to
[16]info@fsf.org
> <mailto:[17]info@fsf.org>
> > <mailto:[18]info@fsf.org
> > <mailto:[19]info@fsf.org>> and
ask
> > them to resist pressures and stay with us.
> >
> > Software libre is a matter of justice. If we
> > can learn
one
> thing from
> > the whole movement is to keep our principals
> > and fight
for
> justice. FSF
> > made a mistake back in 2019 and that was not
> > to defend
RMS
> against
> > false
> > accusations. Today, we can make that right by
supporting a
> wonderful
> > honorable man.
> >
> > Show your support by sending messages to
[20]info@fsf.org
> <mailto:[21]info@fsf.org>
> > <mailto:[22]info@fsf.org
> > <mailto:[23]info@fsf.org>>. Do
it now, later
> > may be late.
> >
> > Best.
> > --
> > Ali Reza Hayati ([24]https://alirezahayati.com
> <[25]https://alirezahayati.com>
> <[26]https://alirezahayati.com
> <[27]https://alirezahayati.com>>)
> > Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
> > PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925
> > 75A3 C354
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> > [28]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> <mailto:[29]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
> > <mailto:[30]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> <mailto:[31]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>>
> >
>
[32]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
ss
>
<[33]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-disc
uss>
> >
>
<[34]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-disc
uss
<[35]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-disc
uss>>
> >
>
> --
> Ali Reza Hayati ([36]https://alirezahayati.com
<[37]https://alirezahayati.com>)
> Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
> PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3
> C354
>
--
Ali Reza Hayati ([38]https://alirezahayati.com)
Libre culture activist and privacy advocate
PGP: B7DC C419 C0ED 05D5 6535 1BD3 2A7F A925 75A3 C354
_______________________________________________
libreplanet-discuss mailing list
[39]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
[40]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
ss
References
1. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
2. https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
3. https://twitter.com/georgialyle/status/1374504389155508232
4. http://gnu.org/
5. http://gnu.org/
6. https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
7. https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
8. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
9. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
10. mailto:info@fsf.org
11. mailto:info@fsf.org
12. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
13. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
14. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
15. mailto:hayati@riseup.net
16. mailto:info@fsf.org
17. mailto:info@fsf.org
18. mailto:info@fsf.org
19. mailto:info@fsf.org
20. mailto:info@fsf.org
21. mailto:info@fsf.org
22. mailto:info@fsf.org
23. mailto:info@fsf.org
24. https://alirezahayati.com/
25. https://alirezahayati.com/
26. https://alirezahayati.com/
27. https://alirezahayati.com/
28. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
29. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
30. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
31. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
32. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
33. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
34. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
35. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
36. https://alirezahayati.com/
37. https://alirezahayati.com/
38. https://alirezahayati.com/
39. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
40. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
_______________________________________________
libreplanet-discuss mailing list
libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss