Re: [Adonthell-general] Adonthell Rules Rough Draft

[Kai Sterker]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:27:24 +0100 walther-franks wrote:

> Hmm. Seems quite complicated. I'll hand that over to Nils... ;)

The full text is available as PDF and HTML from our website, in the
download documentation section.


> Don't quite get your point here. First of all: Are we all sure that
> humans and dwarves shouldn't use magic at all? It makes the system
> quite unbalanced, and would, on the contrary, make elves and
> half-elves killing machines, since they could fight just as well as
> humans/dwarves AND use magic. I don't think we should restrict it that
> far as to say absolutely no magic for two races. I don't see why
> humans shouldn't be able to cast spells: After all they're always
> supposed to be flexible and eager to learn. Another reason why I'm
> pro-human-magic is that without we couldn't have the stereotype
> gandalf-wizard character (elves don't have beards!!)

Are we all sure that elves can't have beards? ;)


> I don't know how determined you are on this subject. We should
> definately one and for all clear the subject - we'd surely find a
> compromise :) My suggestion would be for every race to have their own
> kind of magic. It wouldn't even have to be called magic in all cases
> (except maybe for the elves): Dwarves would be able to inscribe
> various magical runes (to take your idea of smithing a little
> further), men would have an equivalent of alchemy and maybe cheap
> magic, helf-elves a kind of nature-magic, and elves the pure high (and
> most powerful) magic. Important is that every kind of'magic' would
> work after the same principle, e.g. runes, potions, spells would
> technically be treated as the same, and use up a characters mana. This
> would make the races more balanced and keep a certain coherency.

I tend to agree. Dwarven smithing skills and human alchemy have to equal
magic skills of the other races. They would also more or less be based
on the same ingredients and work after the same rules. I'm not sure
whether alchemy or enhanced smithing should cost mana.

Let's compare it with D&D for a moment: all D&D races are able to do
magic. But _only_ if you chose a profession that is able to do magic.
Leaving aside such specialities as dual-/multi class characters, your
initial choice will determine whether a character is able to learn magic
or not.

With our system it would be different: with the initial choice for a
race you'd get a set of talents that the chosen race has. But it is up
to you what talents you train and finally master. That means, an Elf
might get a skilled fighter but he needs not learn a single spell. In
the same way, a Dwarf could turn into a skilled smith and thief, but
everytime he swings an axe he nearly chops off his own legs.

That's why I said that we shouldn't distinguish between abilities and
skills. The reason is, if you can gain 15 'ability' points that can be
distributed over 16 combat ability slots then your average human or
dwarf (that can't do magic) will turn out a skilled fighter - there is
no other way! Elves and Half-Elves OTOH, with 16 combat and 16 magic
slots will turn out either good fighters or good mages, or they'll be
merely average in both.

However, if each race would have the same number of talent slots
(including combat, magic/alchemy/smithing as applies and skills), then
it's up to the player whether a character turns into a killing machine,
or a master thief or a great wizard/alchemist/smith or rather into a
multi-purpose character. Basically, that is what you suggested yourself,
that we need to define what race has what skills and what the maximum
for each skill/race will be. 


Since I'm talking about skills: another skill could be something like
climbing or a more general thing describing how well somebody can
control their body. That would affect how high they can jump/climb or
how fast they can run or how much damage they take when falling down. As
the mapengine will have different height levels, there'll be loads of
opportunities where those types of skills might be handy.


> (Another argument against no-human-dwarf-maigic would be that to make
> it balanced we'd even have to cut elves fighting power, and this is
> neither really fitting or cool, I think)

That doesn't really count. As an elf wouldn't be able to gain more skill
points than a human of the same level, he couldn't be both good at magic
and good at fighting. Had he enough points to be good at both, that
would only mean that the human was good at something that the elf
couldn't do.


So with the above in mind, I don't really see why 'real' magic should be
extended to Humans and Dwarves. They'll have a reasonable alternative.
Besides, I think magic is a very abstract business that needs loads of
studiyng. As such it seems fitting with the kind of Elves we have, while
something like smithing and alchemy that involves a lot more physical
work fits well to dwarves and humans.

See, I think we have keep both sides in mind: create a set of rules that
is balenced and fun to play and create a gameworld that has it's own
appeal and is consistent with the game rules. Defining our races by
their different talents that also determine their way of live should do
the trick.

Kai